I cannot believe you guys are still going on about this?!

The moderators are doing a great job...keeping the flames down and keeping people organized...as clearly this is required for not only newbies but sadly for some FT'ers that have been around a while.

Dorian

Well, Moderator1 has certainly invited a resentment from me that I have never ever held against any other member of this wonderful board. I did not think it would be possible to get me so worked up, so I guess he should have credit for that

Edit: as I have also stated elsewhere I must now exit the moderator1-discussion since it really is not healthy for me. I think I have made my point, and will now try and ignore all this.

[This message has been edited by Goldlust (edited 08-20-2001).]

I have to say that connecting in from a dial up modem while on vacation this week has dramatically increased my resolve that fewer categories/clicks make a big difference (improvement!).

After all, this is a site for travelers where many of us are continuously on the road connecting in from a hotel or otherwise over a modem at 56K at best.

This site is already plagued by speed problems as it is.

It/we can't afford to dramatically decrease usability by imposing so many unique destinations.

So, following that logic I am happy posts are more dispersed now and (hopefully) in their proper place.

I can log in now from a crappy dial-up connection and get to exactly what I want to read without have to wade through pages of crap (like Buzz has been up until the past few days when the moderators got it in order).

Luckily I am on a high-speed connection these recent days or I wouldn't even be reading these demented threads about how people don't like clicking and how their brain hurts trying to understand moving between boards.

Get over it. Find your fav airline or other program and post there.

Dorian

Well, I guess we disagree...it depends on how you use FT.

It takes negligible time to wade through what you would call irrelevant posts which otherwise take up all of a single line on the board -- unless you open each of them, which is indeed �wading� -- but I am not sure why you would do that if the topic didn't interest you. Very few topic headings are so tricky so as to dupe people into threads they otherwise find unappealing.

But the proof is the pudding and not in your opinion or my opinion of what's "best": the fact that it indeed takes longer this way, in fact turns people off (not intellectually or emotionally, just in practice) -- based on my judging of the results of what's getting responded to at this point and the traction that posts which have been relegated to these other areas are getting -- and therefore the actual result when applied to the great mass of FT participants is that fewer posts get addressed/answered, outside of the major airlines and MilesBuzz...and that is less �value�, IMO.

Moreover, I don't understand why the airline boards, are allowed to be populated with so many non-mileage related questions if a strict enforcement policy is in place...probably because that would destroy those boards too. I�m certainly not advocating this in that I like the airline boards the way they are, but it is against FT�s current policy to not move all those posts about seats and destinations and meals to FT Travel.


[This message has been edited by nologic (edited 08-20-2001).]

Here's one difference between what makes sense for MilesBuzz versus individual airline boards.

The difference with the airline boards is that, e.g., a non-miles United question (how is the lounge at LAX) needs to reach a United-specific audience. Until there is enough traffic for a non-miles United forum as well as the miles one, it makes little sense to try to post United questions elsewhere. However, general travel topics (how is whiskey on int'l flights) don't need to reach a specific audience. They just need to reach enough people. Whether they will do so in TravelBuzz, which is where they should go, is an open question. They did in General Traveltalk in the past. But clearly, TravelBuzz will never get enough traffic if people keep on posting stuff in MilesBuzz. It seems to me worthwhile to give the new organization a try, rather than insisting on posting off-topic in MileBuzz and than complaining about all the locked threads and lack of traffic in Travelbuzz--both of which are at least in part a result of the OT posting.

Is anyone at FT actually listening to these suggestions?? Maybe I am mistaken, but I haven't seen a single post from someone at FT dealing with this issue.

What 'issue'? What is there to deal with? Moderators are here and doing an excellent job. I and other can only hope more are brought on board in short order.

Dorian

------------------
The Global Lounge Project - open source airline lounge listings - managed by Dorian
flyers'places - restaurant, bar & hotel tips - acquired by nFT
The Star Alliance RTW Price Chart - by Dorian
The Star Alliance Gold Comparison Chart - by Blondebomber

Our views on the effectiveness and/or roles of moderators may differ, and we're all entitled to those individual opinions.

While systematically denying that a problem exists may be the easiest and most efficient way to prevent a constructive debate, I think that the 5+ threads on the subject that have been started since the moderators made their debut (and the four pages of posts just to this one) would more than suggest that there is indeed an "issue" here.

If there were truly no "issue" and nothing to "deal with," there certainly wouldn't be such a vigorous debate on the subject.

This is not meant to be a jab...but if you haven't been around here for 1+ years then you have little business discussing moderators.

Many of us have seen this site slip to h*ll and begin to recover just in time. Many long time and excellent posters have been lost due to lack of moderation...some have luckily decided to give nFT a 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) try now that we have some order.

Dorian

Dorian, somehow I knew that was coming. And no, I don't take it as a jab.

Look, I'll be the first to admit that, being relatively new here, I don't possess the institutional memory to adequately debate whether moderators are needed. In fact, based on my limited experience with some pretty nasty threads, I'll readily admit that they are (and I've posted as such). I don't pretend to know who/what started that particular debate in the first place, or what, in your opinion or that of your contemporaries, FT "used to be" like. Do I wish I were around here back then? Absolutely. In fact, had that been the case, I'd probably be in total agreement with you. Unfortunately (for me, not you) I wasn't, and there's nothing I can do about that.

But I don't think the majority of what's being debated here--movement of threads and how it facilitates or impedes our usage of the boards--necessarily requires that kind of experience. Nor does a discussion about whether or not there's actually an "issue" here.

On the other hand, have you considered that those who haven't been here for more than a year may provide the ability to offer a fresh perspective on things without getting bogged down in the minutiae of times past? I'm not saying that's what I'm doing, but I wouldn't discount that possibility from other "new" members. Just a thought.

Goldlust posted:
You have got it all backwards! Since there are nobody to moderate the moderators they can use derogatory sentences as much as they like... and they do.

In general, most people who volunteer to be moderators are those who are least suitable. Also a classic to (1) try hard to become a moderator, (2) misuse your power, and then (3) tell everyone that you really are using all your spare time to help everybody. Oh please, I am getting so sick of this.

On a side note I watched a documentary on Hitlerjugend last night, and I did draw some lines between that and current events.

===============

Goldlust (and nikbruno) re your posts above I smiled to notice essexjay is ALSO a Moderator on one or two of the other Forums here! That is not noted in his post or profile, which really should be the case surely with all moderators, now and future, for total transparency? I too really wonder whether moderators addresseing others here they appear not to know as "kiddo" is really good policy or manners? And I agree with some others here the second post in this thread appeared to be an attempt by another moderator to say "back off buddy" to a perfectly reasonable new post.

If there were moderators doing their job, that pest of a kid on the Coupon Connection under the long "swap 30,000 Delta miles" thread would have been cancelled as a user under all his names a month back and that thread long closed. He is now allegedly "suing" all kinds of posters there, and if any thread needed the chop, it is that one. Letting it run to over 200 posts is just feeding his mental problem, and it has zippo business being on that or any Forum. It was clearly a very dangerous scam to start with, the kid got caught red handed, yet FT and all its new Moderators seems oblivious to cutting off his posting access.


http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/003619.html


[This message has been edited by SkyMiler (edited 08-23-2001).]

My primary concern relates to the language being used by one of the Moderators.

I think that people placed in positions of power should be careful with the language that they use as it sets a boundary of acceptable behaviour on behalf of the board.

I was as concerned as others about some of the abuse last year. I am concerned that using words which are patronising and offensive, such as 'kiddo', will cause the board to descend in to its old ways.

I think that some of the thread closing has been random and I'm not sure productive, but then if they're given that power by the owner of the board, all one can do is to register my protest and move on.

This is that protest. (I have also emailed Randy privately about 10 days ago. I decided to wait before posting.)

[This message has been edited by Markie (edited 08-24-2001).]

My understanding is that there were some bad/vicious events a year or so ago? Since January, when I started posting, things have been pretty tame...not "disintegrating to hell".

To the extent this site was ever "slipping to hell" its not my impression, listening to "old timers", that the problem was due to off topic posts, per se.

My understanding is that problems arose due to some offensive langauage/posts, which is something that I think moderators can/should moderate.

The only thing I experienced that was pretty "wierd" was some lady who made a number of bizzare, irrelevant, off-all-topic posts about Citibank's envelopes and other seemingly silly stuff. She seems to have disappeared before this change, however.

Most of the other problems that I have heard about stemmed from abusive remarks, which I do not support.

Going back say to the month of June, for example, before this change was implemented, what was so bad about what was happpening?

nologic, right on the mark again. The problems (at least as far as the boards that I visit) were with flame wars and inappropriate posts, not topics posted in the wrong forum. And a good many, if not most, of those problems were, IMHO, a direct result of one very prolific poster by the name of ozstamps, who has long since been banished. (BTW, I never did understand all the attempts at secrecy on this board. No sense beating around the bush.)

The issue with moderators is not if, but how.