[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mvic:
[B]Moderator 1 wrote "At the end of the day, the bottom line, take home message is that FlyerTalk Miles is for the discussion of Miles & Points, not whiskey, not kids in first class, not tipping the FA's, and not if overweight people should buy 10 seats or not. All that is for FlyerTalk Travel, period. "

Thank you very much. I don't have that much time on my hands so a quick visit to the buzz and the AA forum is usually all I have time for. I check those forums for mileage and AA related issues respectively. Having to wade through allot of none mileage related issues in the Buzz reduces the forums utility for me and obviously I am not alone. When I have more time or I want to research a topic that is not mileage related I will often visit other forums like Travel and trip reports (thank you to all who post their trip reports, good source of ideas and travel inspiration and just plain fun to read many of them)."

Mvci:

This is my feeling EXACTLY. The time required to bounce to other boards inherently inhibits participation, and therefore/quality. More time/experience won't ever change that. Keep the posts as centralized as possible/logical, so one can scan the topic list as quickly/efficiently as possible.

Nologic, logically traction will not occur in the travel boards if all travel content is posted in the buzz

Once in a while, I guees I need to stoop to logic...

nologic
Your postings are so logical and is your handle a subtle satire

I think that moderators are a good idea for filtering offensive material that may be posted. I do not think that they should lock down harmless threads because they are on the "wrong board". When I come to FT, I don't want to have to go to the miles board check the different forums there and then go over and check the travel boards. Too much time too little patience. I say as long as the topic is about the travel industry in general let it be posted.

People want simplicity, and 50 super specific boards instead of 5 general boards won't cut it.

My reccomendation would be to let the moderators control offensive material only, and only lock down threads which may contain offensive topics. They should not stop arguments, move topics
or lock down threads otherwise pertaining to travel.

Well said Rudi - my feelings on this are quite close to the ones mentioned by you.

What you deem harmless is a pain-in-the-neck to many on FT. That's why the outcry for moderators ensued.

Most FT long-timers do not have the time to poke through irrelavent threads such as what tends to turn up in The Buzz.

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I say as long as the topic is about the travel industry in general let it be posted.

No. That's not what FT is about.

If you want general travel industry news, go to Yahoo and set up a customized news page. FT is specifically for FF tips.

Sorry, kiddo. You've got it all backwards.

Flyertalk was created precisely to share insider information, not for general FF questions that can be answered at each airlines' Web site.



[This message has been edited by essxjay (edited 08-12-2001).]

It seems to me, that the people of flyertalk are expressing opinons and ideas and when we do so we are told that "this is the way it will be, end of story" and also, While it may not have been the intention to offend, (and I am sure it was not) I know I would have been offended if a Moderator replyed to a quote of mine by saying "Sorry Kiddo".

My opinion is that if a thread cannot be moved to another forum (e.g., Miles to Travel), it should not be closed.

What purpose is served by closing a thread? It doesn't save time for those who read only a few boards, because the locked thread is still there (until it gets overtaken by more recent threads).

Even on PlaneBusiness, which has some pretty hefty moderation, the moderators would never close a thread due to mis-placement. They always move the thread (actually a copy), or if there is already another thread on the appropriate board, they cut & paste the posts of the closed thread into the appropriately placed thread if the posts are worthwhile. That's no easy task, and they are volunteers as well!

I don't believe splitting up into four separate boards did any good at all. The only useful board outside of Miles & Points is TravelBuzz, which is basically the old General TravelTalk but without as much traffic. Many of the new boards have a handful of posts, most of which are "Wow, cool, a whole board just for ..."


BTW, I consider myself to be an organized person. Yet all my underwear and socks are in the same drawer. The time required to separate the two is not worth it, and there is a strong correlation between that and the new FT categorization!

In responding to nikbruno's point, essxjay writes:

&gt;&gt;What you deem harmless is a pain-in-the-neck to many on FT. That's why the outcry for moderators ensued.

As one of the more vocal to advocate moderation on the board (see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000232.html and http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000311.html and others), I dispute that statement. For many, including myself, the cry for moderation was a plea to keep the discussions polite. This was prompted by and large by about five individuals who regularly stretched (and oftentimes, IMO, exceeded) the limits of civility here.

By the way, I do agree that off topic posts are a pain in the neck, but I have never advocated moderation for that reason (at least that I'm aware of!)

&gt;&gt;Most FT long-timers do not have the time to poke through irrelavent threads such as what tends to turn up in The Buzz.

I personally dislike like the new organization of FlyerTalk. I haven't been over to any of the other boards besides FlyerTalk Miles since the first couple of days after the separation. It's a hassle.

&gt;&gt;If you want general travel industry news, go to Yahoo and set up a customized news page. FT is specifically for FF tips.

The banner on this board reads "The world's most popular frequent flyer community." If it's a community, doesn't the community get to decide what it's going to discuss? (If we don't, change the banner...)

Or did you mean FT Miles is specifically for FF tips?

&gt;&gt;People want simplicity, and 50 super specific boards instead of 5 general boards won't cut it.
&gt;Sorry, kiddo. You've got it all backwards.
Flyertalk was created precisely to share insider information, not for general FF questions that can be answered at each airlines' Web site.

I happen to agree with the original poster, but I wonder if you meant "FT Miles" when you posted this.

[This message has been edited by dgolds (edited 08-12-2001).]

I agree with Burkey, Essxjay, Rudi, and all of the others who have (both before and since the FT board was reorganized) called for more discipline in the posting.

Because Buzz is the first board we see, it seems to be the place where many (and newer posters in particular) seem to think any and everything should be posted. NOT!

Buzz has always been about MILES, MILES and nothing but MILES. Before the time of many newcomers, when it became overloaded with daisy-chains, congas, etc. for miles, we asked for and got a new forum: S.P.A.M. With the recent reorganization we got the forum dedicated to Mileage Runs. All were a needed and successful effort to put the MILES socks in one drawer and underwear in another. But all are Clothing

But the recent Buzz postings about drinks, tips, bare arms, elbows, weight, tray tables, seat backs, FA call buttons, etc (you name it) are no more about miles than � (name you own comparison � mine would not be PC).

JS: You post on PlaneBusiness when you want to air your views about the airline business. You use the various specific airline forums there. Why is so hard to do the same in both posting and seeking knowledge from this board. I have enjoyed reading your posts there and mostly agree with you (both NYC). But you must use wide drawers so you can group socks and underwear together. For me, only in hotels.

I want to back up the Moderators in their efforts to better organize this FT board and these forums. I too wish you could move with a link. That seems to me to be essential.

OK, here are my observations so far:

1. Most people don't give a **** about these issues. I have to believe that hundreds of people have posted to FT over the past few days, but only 36 have people have commented in this and other related threads. Compare that amount with the number of people that have posted to the 500,000th post thread.

2. So far, without a doubt, the vast majority of people who do care are AGAINST "aggressive" moderation, and the sister issue of high vs. low categorization, or at least are FOR the concept of the Buzz as a broader vs. narrower catch-all.

The "AGAINST" people also seem more emotional about their concerns than the FOR people.

3. To try and quantify the responses I have attempted to tally the results; providing for a somewhat liberal interpretation of voter intent, after allowing for a few hanging chads, I report the following preliminary results:

AGAINST AGGRESSIVE MODERATOR INTERVENTION: 22

FOR AGGRESSIVE MODERATOR INTERVENTION: 9

UNDECIDED OR TOO CLOSE TO CALL: 5

3. Most of the people in the "for" camp are older FT members (in FT membership terms).

That�s how I see it so far.

AGAINST AGGRESSIVE MODERATOR INTERVENTION: 22

Make that 23!

All of this controversy is really the result of what used to be General Traveltalk now being on the Travel board. I suspect people now have the habit of posting stuff to Buzz that they would have posted to General Traveltalk in the past (although there was always plenty of random stuff in Buzz).

Given that Randy has decided to reorganize the boards as he has, it can only make sense to try to enforce some order to the system. If the Travel board withers away, then I suppose he might rethink the organization. But it seems to me the last thing we should do is to attack the moderators (not everyone is doing this but some are).

While there can be some genuine debate about what should be in MilesBuzz, there can be little question the threads that have been shut down don't fit within the definition of MilesBuzz. I also find it curious that there is criticism that the moderators have not shut down every questionable thread. That would surely have led to even greater discontent. It would appear that some people are upset that THEIR threads have been shut down. To the extent the moderators have become reluctant to shut down other threads, I think they should just go ahead, exercising their best judgment.

One reason to close a thread is to discourage people from posting in the wrong forum. (Long-run versus short-run incentives.) Of course, it may just discourage them from posting at all. FWIW, I also prefer the old structure and also wish moderators could move threads to the travel board.