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Nov 14, 2011 | 12:55 am

#46

FlyZ46

Join Date: Jan 2006

Programs: AC Elite

Posts: 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPJ

I don't think it will happen - I think PEK still does not allow Republic of China (i.e. Taiwan) carriers to overfly China en route to Europe - thus they have to fly via BKK or overfly Korea/Russia.

This is NOT true. Both mainland China and Taiwan lifted their restrictions in 2005 (yes, Taiwanese/ROC government explicitly forbade its airlines flying over mainland China before 2005). Taiwanese flights has been flying over mainland China en route to South Asia, Middle East and Europe since that year.

The mainland government's announcement: (in Chinese)
http://www.gov.cn/gzdt/2005-09/03/content_28834.htm

News report from China Daily: (in English)
http://www.china.org.cn/english/2005/Sep/141019.htm

The Taiwanese/ROC government's announcement: (in English)
http://www.gio.gov.tw/taiwan-website...005092001.html

Last edited by FlyZ46; Nov 14, 2011 at 2:02 am

Nov 14, 2011 | 1:09 am

#47

FlyZ46

Join Date: Jan 2006

Programs: AC Elite

Posts: 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL

Because it is impossible to grant carriers the right to overfly if the country they are based in doesn't exist...

FWIW, PRC carriers can't fly over Taiwan either, but since Taiwan is tiny and out of the way, it doesn't really matter...

It has been "possible" since 2005. Before that year, it was actually Taiwanese/ROC government who banned flights from flying over mainland China due to security concerns (see the second web link below).

http://www.china.org.cn/english/2005/Sep/141019.htm
http://www.gio.gov.tw/taiwan-website...005092001.html

Last edited by FlyZ46; Nov 14, 2011 at 2:03 am

Nov 14, 2011 | 1:34 am

#48

FlyZ46

Join Date: Jan 2006

Programs: AC Elite

Posts: 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santander

The same thing happens for North and South Korean airlines, they do not fly into each others' airspace because their governments do not recognise each others' legitimacy or sovereignty. This is of no importance to North Korean airlines (oops, airline) because they have no need to overfly the South, but for Southern airlines they always stay well clear of the border when taking off or landing at ICN.

Btw, neither China or Taiwan officially consider Taiwan to be a separate country. Both governments claim they are the legitimate government of the whole of China and Taiwan and do not recognise each other. So in this sense, Taiwan doesn't exist as a country de jure. Of course de facto it is.

Korea's situation is quite different. Mainland China and Taiwan have much closer economic ties than the N/S Koreas. Both PRC and ROC governments have established semi-official "private" organizations (海协会 and 海基會) to handle technical or business negotiations without "recognizing each others' legitimacy or sovereignty".

In 2005, Taiwanese flights began to fly over mainland airspace. Since 2008, agreements have been reached to allow regular direct cross-strait flights, so flying over mainland airspace is no longer a problem for Taiwanese airlines.

Last edited by FlyZ46; Nov 14, 2011 at 2:05 am

Nov 14, 2011 | 1:46 am

#49

FlyZ46

Join Date: Jan 2006

Programs: AC Elite

Posts: 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmvaughn

China doesn't acknowledge Taiwan as a separate country, therefore they can't grant flyover rights to them as such.

Which begs the question... if they consider Taiwan part of China, shouldn't EVA flights going over China be a domestic airline?

Please see my posts above. Direct flights between Taiwan and mainland China have been set up for several years. Why would you think one side can't grant flyover rights to the other?

Answer to your question: Both sides reached an official agreement to classify the flights between Taiwan and mainland China as "Cross-Strait Flights" (neither international nor domestic). In practice, both sides treat them as international.

Nov 14, 2011 | 5:12 am

#50

Santander

Join Date: Apr 2011

Location: CHI / SFO

Programs: UA*G, AC*S, Marriott LTP, National Exec

Posts: 3,893

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhuzheng

Yeah, but I meant in terms of diplomatic recognition they are somewhat similar, although there is obviously less international ambiguity without a "one China"-type policy. But realistically, North Korea only really has serious economic ties to one country...

Feb 1, 2012 | 5:23 pm

#51

username

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: May 2001

Posts: 11,700

Latest news and translation is on http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17933482-post166.html

Another somewhat different report is at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17935765-post172.html

Last edited by username; Feb 2, 2012 at 2:43 am

Feb 1, 2012 | 5:48 pm

#52

bocastephen

A FlyerTalk Posting Legend

Join Date: Sep 2002

Location: LAX/TPE

Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC

Posts: 47,152

Quote:

Originally Posted by username

Latest news and translation is on http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17933482-post166.html

Two years to join?? Why in the world would it take that long?

Feb 1, 2012 | 5:51 pm

#53

jaguar

Join Date: Mar 1999

Location: Nashville

Programs: United 1K

Posts: 2,265

Only one year to go.

Feb 2, 2012 | 3:43 am

#54

huhuhusky

Join Date: Feb 2010

Programs: OZ Diamond Plus, BD Gold, SPG Platinum

Posts: 169

This is exciting indeed. I hope EVA can join *A asap, so HKG - TPE is once again covered.

Feb 2, 2012 | 8:51 am

#55

LAX

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Los Angeles, CA; Philadelphia, PA

Programs: FA

Posts: 6,482

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguar

Only one year to go.

At the earliest!

LAX

Feb 2, 2012 | 4:06 pm

#56

username

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: May 2001

Posts: 11,700

A 2nd report said 4Q12 or 1Q13. Who knows?

The improvement to the *A network would be great but the mileage accrual schedule will probably be very bad.

Feb 4, 2012 | 9:12 am

#57

planetcub

Join Date: Oct 2011

Location: PEK/SFO

Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SPG Plat., PG Ambassador Plat.,

Posts: 32

Hmm...I hope that they can join *A sooner. I am tired of CA's bad food on PEK-TPE.

Feb 4, 2012 | 8:58 pm

#58

transparent

Join Date: Jul 2008

Location: NYC

Programs: AA EXP, SPG Plat, Marriott Silver, HH Gold

Posts: 797

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetcub

Hmm...I hope that they can join *A sooner. I am tired of CA's bad food on PEK-TPE.

EVA would be a great addition to *A, and provide better options for getting to TPE! Hopefully with 100% EQM...

Feb 6, 2012 | 8:06 pm

#59

bocastephen

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Join Date: Sep 2002

Location: LAX/TPE

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Posts: 47,152

Quote:

Originally Posted by username

A 2nd report said 4Q12 or 1Q13. Who knows?

The improvement to the *A network would be great but the mileage accrual schedule will probably be very bad.

I'm not sure who is the 'shorty' on the EQM and miles - EVA or the partner - but as part of their alliance approval, they better be forced to offer full mileage on all transpac/US/Canada/Europe flights, otherwise what's the use of flying them if you earn next to nothing?

Feb 7, 2012 | 12:28 pm

#60

tobegold

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: YVR

Programs: TK Elite Plus, IC Plat Ambassador, HH Diamond

Posts: 1,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocastephen

Well, then Star Alliance should force all members to give full mileage on all fares. The fact is that only UA/CO gives full mileage on all of its fares, many members only give partial or no mileage on certain fares. Also, TK gives full mieage on all of its fares to its own program members, but other carriers give partial or no mileage on many TK fares. You will be able to get full mileage on EVA, definitely on the full fare economy fares, the question is how much will the discounted fares earn.

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