nd_eric_77

Excellent point. WN's only saving grace - on the pre-board issue - is that they have gotten more serious about enforcing the "no pre-boards in exit rows" rule. One of my favorite WN experiences was when a dude got WN to let him pre-board due to the length of his legs (i am not making that up - heard the whole pathetic conversation dude had with the GA)... only to have the FA refuse to let him occupy an exit row.

JRF

Yep, I see the changes as being good for a business person that travels alone. I see the program as just complicating things for everyone else. I am not sure if in the end it will help me or hurt me. The fact that I don't know for sure, well I guess I will know after my next few tickets if any of them happen to be on WN, which they may well be....

Kaiserin

I have to wonder - for the folks on here who are griping about couples potentially having to board in different groups: can you not tolerate 10 minutes of being separated? Are you fused at the hip?

Are the couples who are highly concerned about this possibility the same ones who sit in aisle/window seats (leaving the middle free) while acting completely engrossed in conversation when everyone else is boarding?

Hmm...it seems like there might be some correlation here...

nsx

It's a rolling initial qualification but not a rolling requalification. It's an annual requalification just like the CP, probably using the same software. First they look at November 8, 2006 to November 7, 2007. Let's say you make the cut. You are now A-list for a full year, even if you don't fly at all. Your requalification period is November 8, 2007 to November 7, 2007. You need 32 one-way flights during that time or you will fail to requalify.

Let's say you only have 30 flights for requalification. If those were late in your requalification period you can fly a couple times (say December 1 and 2) and qualify for A-list again. Your requalification period is then December 3, 2008 to December 2, 2009. It works just like the CP.

In fact, I'll venture to guess that even though they promise 12 months of A-list, they will actually give you 13 months, just like for the CP. Because that way they can re-use their software.

So far there will not be plastic cards for A-list, but Southwest would be very smart to spend the money to provide them. Plastic cards will be essential to deliver the one benefit business travelers value above all else: ability to use the elite security lines.

FCfree

An interesting comparison. Consider United where 30 one-way segments gets you PREMIER status (first level). So, that is 2 one-way segments less than being an A-lister. However, United's accounting method is different. Each separate flight number is a separate segment. So, if you fly DEN-ORD-DTW and you change planes and flight numbers in ORD, you get 2 segments. Do the same on WN (through MDW) and you still only get 1 segment. Thus, depending on how much you fly through United's hubs, the actual segment count (using the WN accounting method) to make PREMIER can be significantly less.

You can also get to PREMIER status on United by flying 25,000 miles. That means that 781.25 miles is the break even point. (25,000 / 32). If you fly 2,000 mile trips, you'd only need 13 segments (6.5 round trips) to earn PREMIER.

The value of PREMIER is a pretty good shot at Economy Plus (36" of legroom). PREMIERS almost always get an assigned seat. Non-status people do not get an assigned seat when the airplane is getting close to full. (This has happened to me several times -- assigned at airport check-in). The seat gets assigned at the gate, although my experience has been that you will likely still get a window or aisle. Of course, if all the windows and aisles are assigned, I guess they have to start giving out middles. That hasn't happened to me. (I fly UA when there isn't a non-stop flight on WN on the city pair I need).

If you are flying on non-TED airplanes, you can buy your way up to first class, but it is kind of expensive. US Air has the better deal on buying up to first, at just $50 per 500 miles, however, I did not find the food on US Air to my tastes.

The best you can do on a TED airplane is get up into E+, where you get the 36" of legroom.

UA is also nice with the in-flight entertainment, including Channel 9, where you can listen to Air Traffic Control -- a relatively no-cost entertainment that I wish other airlines would adopt.

On Frontier, its only 15,000 miles to get ASCENT level status. Fly just thirty (30) 500 mile trips on Frontier and you get status. You get to pre-board, have a special line for luggage check-in and get priority on the security screening. You also get free Direct TV, a $5 per segment value, about the same value as one free drink on Southwest. However, as pointed out above, a Bloody Mary at 7AM may not be a good idea. Watching Direct TV at 7AM probably isn't going to hamper your day (I guess it depends which channel you watch!)

If you are flying on a full fare, heck, spend the extra $10-$30 and get a business select ticket. That probably will still be less than United.

On the restricted fares, Southwest is likely to be cheaper on the fare and then cheaper still when you factor in that pesky change fee over at the legacy carriers (and the LCC wanna-be, Frontier).

United and Frontier have a HUGE opportunity here. If they dropped the change fee and could get the prices in-line with Southest, they'd have a chance. But, the are too slow to take advantage of opportunity. I've never seen a United rep on FT talking to us like HIGH ON LUV does. Frontier's "foxnine" doesn't speak for Frontier itself. If UA and/or F9 are monitoring this amazing free focus group called Flyer Talk, they sure don't let it be known and/or actually take any action based on it. Hand it to WN, at least they are listening here on FT and realizing that an A boarding pass has value.

Most other airlines are 25,000 miles or 30 segments to reach that first level of status. What you get varies. NW and CO give you free, unlimited, space available upgrades to FIRST CLASS, where all the drinks you want are free, no coupons have to change hands and, best of all, the seat is comfortable. I had 95% upgrades as a CO Silver on NW 6 years ago. A friend of mine, NW GOLD tells me that he is at/near 100% upgrades. Gold takes 50,000 miles or 60 segments.

AA gives you some fast ways to get to GOLD (their first level) through the GOLD and PLATINUM challenge. If you fly a certain number of miles in 3 months, you can have GOLD/PLAT for the remainder of the year and the entire following year. A DEN-ORD-LHR and back in Business Class gets PLAT for the remainder of that year, all of the following year, then a drop to GOLD the year after that.

United usually runs a promotion at the end of the year where you pay a fee (like $200) and you get double credits on your Elite Qualifying Miles (EQM) and Elite Qualifying Segments (EQS). So, if you fly say 26 segments, but 4 of those segments are during this window, and you pay the fee, you have 30 segments and bingo you are PREMIER.

Based on the above, the new WN system is hardly complex when compared to UA/AA etc., but certainly more complex than anything WN has had before.

Couples do not get separated on UA or F9. You board on the lowest group number. That is especially true if you have status. When UA invites the PREMIERS to board, the PREMIER'S significant other and family can board with him/her.

FCfree

Can you use your RR card at LAS Terminal B, go through the better security line and then take the shuttle bus over to terminal C?

If you've got the time, but just hate standing in the cattle line, this could be a good strategy?!?

I thought the TSA policy was any security entry point anywhere. For example, in Denver, you can take the bridge over to the A concourse, go through security, then down to the train and out to C.

Anybody know if the RR card works in Denver? They don't list RR on the sign for the express TSA line.

curbcrusher

And a very interesting and detailed response. Thank you, sir! ^

curbcrusher

At T4 PHX, any checkpoint can get you to any gate (it would just be quite a hike to go through the west checkpoint on WN's side to get to a far east US concourse, or vice versa). However, I've seen the workfare folks redirect passengers to the closest checkpoint for their concourse instead of letting them go through.

rzyzzy

I'm a CP holder, probably 80ish segments per year for business, and from what I'm hearing I must be the "target" for this change.

My boss told me to fly WN for the sub $100 fares as an alternative to driving ~60k miles per year. If I were to try and buy "BS" tickets @ ~$140 he'd tell me to start driving...

I know there are alot of companies out there that snark up their employee's miles/points - you know they won't pay extra to get their road warrior a beer and an aisle seat...

My old boss once set me up with a 4 hour layover to save $20 off a non-stop. He came close to needing dental repairs after that one...

To sum it up, I'm still booking bottom-bucket, and I'm driving if I start getting middle seats.

My wife (CP) should be able to board with me - this change makes me grumpy. Under the old system we both got "A"'s.

I've never had a problem booking reward tickets, and if that were to change I will likely bail.

I'm cautiously optimistic...

SAPMAN

Let's all remember, there will likely be (my guess) 30+ A boarding passes for the non A-list, non BS folks on most flights. So if you are Johnny on the Spot, you can likely get an a BP for your Companion. Granted likely an A30 or higher, but still lots of seats so you and companion can sit how you like (except probably Exit row or Bulkhead).

In the past, you still have to do OLCI for Both (often within 23-24 hr. mark) to get an A BP. And then have to wait in a line if you wanted to be one of the first 30 on board.

nsx

Yes, on balance it looks like a significant improvement if you are A-list.

CarolDisney1

While I wouldn't do it, I once saw a passenger plop down between a couple and when they "volunteered" to move so they could sit together he told them "No" LOL! They were really put out, but it was funny! (He was rather large too, not a COS but a good size guy on a short flight and I think he decided to stick it to them!)

das

Exactly, Business Select is a very shrewd move, and is directly targeted to those business travelers who avoid Southwest because of the hassle of securing a good boarding number. And for those of you who think companies won't pay for a Business Select fare, there seem to be plenty of companies willing to reimburse higher fares on other airlines when their employees odn't want to fly Southwest.

I also think the A-list is smart because it moves Southwest away from treating everyone equally. Segmenting customers just makes business sense, as UA has already demonstrated with Economy Plus.

It's really encouraging to see Southwest thinking more outside the box! ^^

SAT Lawyer

No, but I don't like being the jerk-off who boards first and saves seats. Neither would I like boarding with my wife after the plane starts to fill to the gills. Which do you prefer?

Honestly, I like advance seat assignments and choice ones at that. But I was quite comfortable with WN's previous boarding process. Now that WN is starting to emulate the legacy carriers, often in a haphazard manner, I find myself becoming more and more disenchanted.

das

If you are so skeptical, why has Airtran been successful at charging for seat assignments on their lowest fares, and why has United been so successful at upselling Economy Plus?

Fact is, there is a market segment out there willing to pay more than what Southwest charges, and isn't well served by the current egalitarian experience. Business Select seems like a really shrewd way to address this.