SW 1380 one passenger dead: Uncontained engine failure and emergency landing at PHL
Apr 18, 2018, 5:28 am
#121
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 623
I’ve always been a window seat guy, but In the last few weeks I've taken aisle seats when sitting behind the engines to protect myself from an uncontained engine failure. I recognize the odds are tiny but I viewed it as one of the few things I could do to make flying safer.
I’ve been aware of the danger since the 2016 Southwest issue and sat in window seats behind the engines many times since then, but each time I was mildly unsettled by it. Finally changed my seat selection habits a couple weeks back. I’m not sure I would cause a scene if it was the only seat left or even take a middle over an open window seat, but the danger of an uncontained engine failure definitely factors into my decision.
I’ve been aware of the danger since the 2016 Southwest issue and sat in window seats behind the engines many times since then, but each time I was mildly unsettled by it. Finally changed my seat selection habits a couple weeks back. I’m not sure I would cause a scene if it was the only seat left or even take a middle over an open window seat, but the danger of an uncontained engine failure definitely factors into my decision.
Apr 18, 2018, 5:47 am
#123
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Let's see... According to the picture, the seat and the seat belt are still intact. What does the seat belt do? Hold you in your seat. Yes, it's used for turbulence, but obviously the passenger was either: 1) Not wearing the belt tight enough, or 2) Not wearing it at all. If the seat belt and seat are still intact, the passenger had no reason to be sucked out of the window as they wouldn't have moved (because they seat didn't go anywhere) if they were strapped in properly. My logic is like assuming someone who's thrown from the window of a car while it flipped over wasn't wearing their seat-belt. There isn't a rush of air leaving the car, but the whole point is the belt keeps you in place.
Last edited by mikesyr18; Apr 18, 2018 at 5:54 am
Apr 18, 2018, 5:58 am
#124
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Apr 18, 2018, 6:13 am
#125
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Really depends on airline/pilot/circumstance of the day. But basically ~20,000 ft is when seatbelt signs can be turned off under normal circumstances.
Thinking it deeper, regardless whether seat belt was worn, this would be a sudden impact with little time for people to react. Also with a pressurized cabin punctured and high altitude/speed, I think whoever seated next to the shattered window is inside a death trap.
I know there's a lot of focus/discussion on wearing seat belt, but what if that passenger decided to take a nap and rest its head by the window? Would that be a contributing factor too? We can debate on and on but ultimately it's a tragedy.
My condolences to the deceased and good job pilot for safely landing the plane.
Thinking it deeper, regardless whether seat belt was worn, this would be a sudden impact with little time for people to react. Also with a pressurized cabin punctured and high altitude/speed, I think whoever seated next to the shattered window is inside a death trap.
I know there's a lot of focus/discussion on wearing seat belt, but what if that passenger decided to take a nap and rest its head by the window? Would that be a contributing factor too? We can debate on and on but ultimately it's a tragedy.
My condolences to the deceased and good job pilot for safely landing the plane.
Apr 18, 2018, 6:27 am
#126
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,028
Aviation Week, Bill Carey
NTSB investigators found evidence of metal fatigue in the left engine of the Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-700 that made an emergency landing at Philadelphia International Airport on April 17 after the pilots initially reported an engine fire, then clarified that there was no fire but that engine parts were missing.A woman died after an apparent engine explosion blew out a window and caused the cabin to depressurize, nearly pulling her from the aircraft, according to media reports. The passenger fatality was the first on a U.S. airline since 2009.There were 144 passengers and five crew aboard for Southwest flight 1380, which had departed New York La Guardia Airport for Dallas Love Field. Southwest initially said the flight carried 143 passengers.At a 9 p.m. briefing at the airport the day of the incident, NTSB Chairman Robert Sumwalt said investigators immediately focused on a missing fan blade in the damaged CFM56-7B turbofan engine. The number 13 fan blade, one of 24 fan blades that draw air into the engine, was broken at the point where it attached to the hub. “Our preliminary examination of this was that there is evidence of metal fatigue where the blade separated,” he told reporters. The engine cowling was found in Bernville, Pennsylvania, about 70 miles northwest of the airport.Sumwalt said the NTSB wants to determine if the affected engine part is subject to a pending FAA airworthiness directive (AD) for certain CFM56-7B engines that would require ultrasonic inspections of certain fan blades. The agency proposed the AD after a Southwest 737 experienced a fan blade failure while flying from New Orleans to Orlando in August 2016. The flight crew landed the aircraft safely at Pensacola International Airport.In June 2017, engine manufacturer CFM International issued a revised service bulletin that recommended one-time ultrasonic inspection of high-time fan blades “as soon as possible” on CFM56-78 engines.Southwest CEO Gary Kelly informed Sumwalt that the airline will immediately begin enhanced inspection procedures involving ultrasonic inspection on its entire fleet. In a statement posted on its website, Southwest said it will accelerate its existing engine inspection program relating to CFM56 engines “out of an abundance of caution,” a process it expects to complete in 30 days.CFM, the joint venture of GE Aviation and France’s Safran Aircraft Engines, said the CFM56 engine type entered service in 1997. The FAA issued a certificate of registration to the incident aircraft in 2000. During the briefing, Sumwalt provided a timeline of the emergency landing. The flight departed La Guardia Airport at 10:43 a.m. About 20 minutes after takeoff, as the aircraft was passing through 32,500 feet, multiple aural alerts and warnings sounded on the flight deck. The two pilots donned oxygen masks and reported to air traffic control that they had a Number 1 engine fire, were operating on a single engine and were initiating an emergency descent.“Because they were concerned with potential aircraft controllability issues, they elected to land the airplane with flaps 5 instead of the normal flap setting for a Boeing 737, which would be either flaps 30 or flaps 40,” Sumwalt said. “Once they were on final approach, they clarified to the tower that there was no engine fire, but they were operating single engine and they reported parts of the engine were missing.”Asked about the significance of the lower flap setting, Sumwalt said: “That would mean that they were going to have a faster approach speed by a good bit, and they did that because of concerns about controllability.”Sumwalt said the flight crew consisted of a female captain and a male first officer. Media reports identified the captain as Tammie Jo Shults, who was described by friends as one of the first women to fly the U.S. Navy’s F/A-18 Hornet fighter.
NTSB investigators found evidence of metal fatigue in the left engine of the Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-700 that made an emergency landing at Philadelphia International Airport on April 17 after the pilots initially reported an engine fire, then clarified that there was no fire but that engine parts were missing.A woman died after an apparent engine explosion blew out a window and caused the cabin to depressurize, nearly pulling her from the aircraft, according to media reports. The passenger fatality was the first on a U.S. airline since 2009.There were 144 passengers and five crew aboard for Southwest flight 1380, which had departed New York La Guardia Airport for Dallas Love Field. Southwest initially said the flight carried 143 passengers.At a 9 p.m. briefing at the airport the day of the incident, NTSB Chairman Robert Sumwalt said investigators immediately focused on a missing fan blade in the damaged CFM56-7B turbofan engine. The number 13 fan blade, one of 24 fan blades that draw air into the engine, was broken at the point where it attached to the hub. “Our preliminary examination of this was that there is evidence of metal fatigue where the blade separated,” he told reporters. The engine cowling was found in Bernville, Pennsylvania, about 70 miles northwest of the airport.Sumwalt said the NTSB wants to determine if the affected engine part is subject to a pending FAA airworthiness directive (AD) for certain CFM56-7B engines that would require ultrasonic inspections of certain fan blades. The agency proposed the AD after a Southwest 737 experienced a fan blade failure while flying from New Orleans to Orlando in August 2016. The flight crew landed the aircraft safely at Pensacola International Airport.In June 2017, engine manufacturer CFM International issued a revised service bulletin that recommended one-time ultrasonic inspection of high-time fan blades “as soon as possible” on CFM56-78 engines.Southwest CEO Gary Kelly informed Sumwalt that the airline will immediately begin enhanced inspection procedures involving ultrasonic inspection on its entire fleet. In a statement posted on its website, Southwest said it will accelerate its existing engine inspection program relating to CFM56 engines “out of an abundance of caution,” a process it expects to complete in 30 days.CFM, the joint venture of GE Aviation and France’s Safran Aircraft Engines, said the CFM56 engine type entered service in 1997. The FAA issued a certificate of registration to the incident aircraft in 2000. During the briefing, Sumwalt provided a timeline of the emergency landing. The flight departed La Guardia Airport at 10:43 a.m. About 20 minutes after takeoff, as the aircraft was passing through 32,500 feet, multiple aural alerts and warnings sounded on the flight deck. The two pilots donned oxygen masks and reported to air traffic control that they had a Number 1 engine fire, were operating on a single engine and were initiating an emergency descent.“Because they were concerned with potential aircraft controllability issues, they elected to land the airplane with flaps 5 instead of the normal flap setting for a Boeing 737, which would be either flaps 30 or flaps 40,” Sumwalt said. “Once they were on final approach, they clarified to the tower that there was no engine fire, but they were operating single engine and they reported parts of the engine were missing.”Asked about the significance of the lower flap setting, Sumwalt said: “That would mean that they were going to have a faster approach speed by a good bit, and they did that because of concerns about controllability.”Sumwalt said the flight crew consisted of a female captain and a male first officer. Media reports identified the captain as Tammie Jo Shults, who was described by friends as one of the first women to fly the U.S. Navy’s F/A-18 Hornet fighter.
Apr 18, 2018, 6:32 am
#128
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Apr 18, 2018, 6:33 am
#129
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I’ve always been a window seat guy, but In the last few weeks I've taken aisle seats when sitting behind the engines to protect myself from an uncontained engine failure. I recognize the odds are tiny but I viewed it as one of the few things I could do to make flying safer.
Apr 18, 2018, 6:47 am
#130
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,512
Should we assume was this done?
Do carriers act on the manufacturer's recommendation as they would an airworthiness directive?
Apr 18, 2018, 6:55 am
#131
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Programs: AA, Delta, Singapore Airlines
Posts: 701
Aviation Week, Bill Carey
NTSB investigators found evidence of metal fatigue in the left engine of the Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-700 that made an emergency landing at Philadelphia International Airport on April 17 after the pilots initially reported an engine fire, then clarified that there was no fire but that engine parts were missing.A woman died after an apparent engine explosion blew out a window and caused the cabin to depressurize, nearly pulling her from the aircraft, according to media reports. The passenger fatality was the first on a U.S. airline since 2009.There were 144 passengers and five crew aboard for Southwest flight 1380, which had departed New York La Guardia Airport for Dallas Love Field. Southwest initially said the flight carried 143 passengers.At a 9 p.m. briefing at the airport the day of the incident, NTSB Chairman Robert Sumwalt said investigators immediately focused on a missing fan blade in the damaged CFM56-7B turbofan engine. The number 13 fan blade, one of 24 fan blades that draw air into the engine, was broken at the point where it attached to the hub. “Our preliminary examination of this was that there is evidence of metal fatigue where the blade separated,” he told reporters. The engine cowling was found in Bernville, Pennsylvania, about 70 miles northwest of the airport.Sumwalt said the NTSB wants to determine if the affected engine part is subject to a pending FAA airworthiness directive (AD) for certain CFM56-7B engines that would require ultrasonic inspections of certain fan blades. The agency proposed the AD after a Southwest 737 experienced a fan blade failure while flying from New Orleans to Orlando in August 2016. The flight crew landed the aircraft safely at Pensacola International Airport.In June 2017, engine manufacturer CFM International issued a revised service bulletin that recommended one-time ultrasonic inspection of high-time fan blades “as soon as possible” on CFM56-78 engines.Southwest CEO Gary Kelly informed Sumwalt that the airline will immediately begin enhanced inspection procedures involving ultrasonic inspection on its entire fleet. In a statement posted on its website, Southwest said it will accelerate its existing engine inspection program relating to CFM56 engines “out of an abundance of caution,” a process it expects to complete in 30 days.CFM, the joint venture of GE Aviation and France’s Safran Aircraft Engines, said the CFM56 engine type entered service in 1997. The FAA issued a certificate of registration to the incident aircraft in 2000. During the briefing, Sumwalt provided a timeline of the emergency landing. The flight departed La Guardia Airport at 10:43 a.m. About 20 minutes after takeoff, as the aircraft was passing through 32,500 feet, multiple aural alerts and warnings sounded on the flight deck. The two pilots donned oxygen masks and reported to air traffic control that they had a Number 1 engine fire, were operating on a single engine and were initiating an emergency descent.“Because they were concerned with potential aircraft controllability issues, they elected to land the airplane with flaps 5 instead of the normal flap setting for a Boeing 737, which would be either flaps 30 or flaps 40,” Sumwalt said. “Once they were on final approach, they clarified to the tower that there was no engine fire, but they were operating single engine and they reported parts of the engine were missing.”Asked about the significance of the lower flap setting, Sumwalt said: “That would mean that they were going to have a faster approach speed by a good bit, and they did that because of concerns about controllability.”Sumwalt said the flight crew consisted of a female captain and a male first officer. Media reports identified the captain as Tammie Jo Shults, who was described by friends as one of the first women to fly the U.S. Navy’s F/A-18 Hornet fighter.
NTSB investigators found evidence of metal fatigue in the left engine of the Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-700 that made an emergency landing at Philadelphia International Airport on April 17 after the pilots initially reported an engine fire, then clarified that there was no fire but that engine parts were missing.A woman died after an apparent engine explosion blew out a window and caused the cabin to depressurize, nearly pulling her from the aircraft, according to media reports. The passenger fatality was the first on a U.S. airline since 2009.There were 144 passengers and five crew aboard for Southwest flight 1380, which had departed New York La Guardia Airport for Dallas Love Field. Southwest initially said the flight carried 143 passengers.At a 9 p.m. briefing at the airport the day of the incident, NTSB Chairman Robert Sumwalt said investigators immediately focused on a missing fan blade in the damaged CFM56-7B turbofan engine. The number 13 fan blade, one of 24 fan blades that draw air into the engine, was broken at the point where it attached to the hub. “Our preliminary examination of this was that there is evidence of metal fatigue where the blade separated,” he told reporters. The engine cowling was found in Bernville, Pennsylvania, about 70 miles northwest of the airport.Sumwalt said the NTSB wants to determine if the affected engine part is subject to a pending FAA airworthiness directive (AD) for certain CFM56-7B engines that would require ultrasonic inspections of certain fan blades. The agency proposed the AD after a Southwest 737 experienced a fan blade failure while flying from New Orleans to Orlando in August 2016. The flight crew landed the aircraft safely at Pensacola International Airport.In June 2017, engine manufacturer CFM International issued a revised service bulletin that recommended one-time ultrasonic inspection of high-time fan blades “as soon as possible” on CFM56-78 engines.Southwest CEO Gary Kelly informed Sumwalt that the airline will immediately begin enhanced inspection procedures involving ultrasonic inspection on its entire fleet. In a statement posted on its website, Southwest said it will accelerate its existing engine inspection program relating to CFM56 engines “out of an abundance of caution,” a process it expects to complete in 30 days.CFM, the joint venture of GE Aviation and France’s Safran Aircraft Engines, said the CFM56 engine type entered service in 1997. The FAA issued a certificate of registration to the incident aircraft in 2000. During the briefing, Sumwalt provided a timeline of the emergency landing. The flight departed La Guardia Airport at 10:43 a.m. About 20 minutes after takeoff, as the aircraft was passing through 32,500 feet, multiple aural alerts and warnings sounded on the flight deck. The two pilots donned oxygen masks and reported to air traffic control that they had a Number 1 engine fire, were operating on a single engine and were initiating an emergency descent.“Because they were concerned with potential aircraft controllability issues, they elected to land the airplane with flaps 5 instead of the normal flap setting for a Boeing 737, which would be either flaps 30 or flaps 40,” Sumwalt said. “Once they were on final approach, they clarified to the tower that there was no engine fire, but they were operating single engine and they reported parts of the engine were missing.”Asked about the significance of the lower flap setting, Sumwalt said: “That would mean that they were going to have a faster approach speed by a good bit, and they did that because of concerns about controllability.”Sumwalt said the flight crew consisted of a female captain and a male first officer. Media reports identified the captain as Tammie Jo Shults, who was described by friends as one of the first women to fly the U.S. Navy’s F/A-18 Hornet fighter.
Apr 18, 2018, 6:57 am
#132
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Does a report of a T-bone accident on the freeway make you not want to sit in a car passenger seat? Does a report of a tree falling on the master bedroom of a house make you not want to go to bed this evening?
We're talking reverse lottery here - one chance in billions, probably, that this grisly incident occurred.
The most I can logically deduce from this incident is that maybe, maybe, one should avoid window seats in this specific model of 737 on this specific airline in a specific set of rows just behind the engines. And that's still emotion ruling over logic, IMO.
We're talking reverse lottery here - one chance in billions, probably, that this grisly incident occurred.
The most I can logically deduce from this incident is that maybe, maybe, one should avoid window seats in this specific model of 737 on this specific airline in a specific set of rows just behind the engines. And that's still emotion ruling over logic, IMO.
Apr 18, 2018, 7:05 am
#134
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It's not like that window burst and the pax had a second or two to realize it and move her body away from the "light breeze." When that window blew, anything (including heads and necks) that were in the path of the explosive decompression was outside the plane in tenths or hundredths of a second. No possible reaction time available.
Apr 18, 2018, 7:11 am
#135
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Not to get into a US-based airlines bashing thread here, but a number of international airlines have seat belt signs off . Every USA-based carrier I've flown (AA, UA, WN, DL, VX, AS, NK, G4, plus various regionals) are very tight about when they turn the sign off, and very ready to turn it back on at the slightest bump. By contrast, nearly every non-USA based carrier I've flown is far quicker to turn the seat belt sign off and to ride out some lighter chop without turning it on. IME the major difference is that many international carriers require FAs to sit when seat belt sign is on. USA-based carriers don't, so on international carriers in-cabin service normally stops when the seat belt sign is on. But, to pick out the international airline I personally have the most experience with, Qantas commonly turns the seat belt sign off quickly and turns it back on quite late. I've had 10+ hour flights with Qantas where the seat belt sign never came on outside of takeoff and landing, even with some light chop. And there is no doubt about the safety record of Qantas.