Fair enough.

I agree that high-end/luxury hotel chains should not have a points-based program (and IMO the Marriott-RC partnership somewhat devalued the RC experience), however a program offering more personalized service and a free night and/or room/suite upgrade certs (confirmable at time of booking) after x nights as a published benefit works fairly well IMO.

I don't want to rehash what has already been discussed in previous threads, but the counter-argument is that standardizing guest recognition practices by implementing t&c and "published benefits" would actually have an adverse effect on guest recognition.

+1: I think this is what would happen.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...l#post21466781
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...-q3-213-a.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...y-program.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...r-seasons.html

prior to 2010 - many forum members part of FS "Profile Guests" program, then discontinued, at least officially

mar 2010 >
sep 2010 >
dec 2012 but i dont think invited to by invitation >
mar 24 2011 >
nov 1 2011 - by invitation promotion launched
from jan 2012 FS docs >
jan 7 2013 - by invitation 2013 >
list of those who posted that they were invited to by invitation >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...l#post17669014

aug 28 2013 post about FS looking for Director of Customer Relationship Marketing >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...l#post21352370

Contrary to a point made up thread,the 2013 by invitation program is still running.
My credits are still active and I got an email statement from them last week.

Also,they have been sending tailored offers to me ,not available to non members.

The by invitation program is extended for 2014. I just use 10 credits to upgrade from a premier room to a a one bedroom suite for 10 night in march 2014. This was roughly a $15,000 value for guaranteed upgrade.

this is interesting and relevant, just got this in physical mail >

https://enroll.amexnetwork.com/US/en/FourSeasonsMR/

this could be FS running a test

i guess a test for amex too in terms of business deals with FS
amex at one point had redemptions for some FS stays. now only gift cards.

I noticed it says TA bookings are not eligible, but I presume Amex FHR bookings are eligible. Othetwise, foregone benefits would likely negate the value of 5k bonus MR points.

If FHR bookings are eligible, this offer could be valuable if MR points redeemed for miles.

I understand the exclusivity of Four Seasons NOT offering a loyalty program. That being said, with more and more FS properties, they are competing with more and more luxury properties that have them, so it will be interesting to see what FS will do. Peninsula and MO have much fewer properties, so there is less incentive nor need to offer a loyalty program. But FS is now competing with Ritz (Marriott), Park Hyatt (Hyatt), St. Regis (Starwood) in more and more cities, and the competition might be the push to a loyalty program at a future date. FS still largely out-competes those in general with better service, in my opinion, but not in all markets. Aman still out-competes FS in terms of service level, but they have not often competed in the same markets--though that seems to changing (Beijing, Hangzhou, Jackson Hole, Bali, Marrakech being current examples, with Tokyo coming up possibly). A number of unique boutique properties in various markets also offers FS increased competition (Upper House, Opposite House, etc), but I'm not sure they push FS towards loyalty program or not. I still think FS will eventually offer one, because the entire industry has moved in that direction and it offers a way to sate that need for even the higher segment travelers, including us.

+1 with your analysis though I say Exclusive BS. FS competes for high end business travelers along with everyone else. They can't fill their properties with royalty and movie stars. When FS first expanded it had a niche at the top that didn't require a program as the closest competition (RC in the USA) didn't have one either nor did many independent overseas properties. But most are now affiliated with some program, at the very least LHW.

I don't know FS occupancy rate but I'd wager it isn't near 90% because I can often find discounted corp rates (and even public discounts) for many properties. So clearly there is room for FS to boost occupancy. You can do that through discounting, improving the product, or marketing (i.e. freq. guest program). The last is cheapest.

I like most FS properties but I generally shun them on the sole basis that they lack a reward program. Why should I stay at FS when I can get equally acceptable rooms at most St. Regis, RC and even some Hyatts? I am loathe to give up points not to mention status. Standard rooms, while luxurious, do not provide me perks I value like lounge access, butlers (St. Regis), suite upgrades, waived fees, and most importantly points that I can use for free stays on leisure travel. Nor do I like having to wait for coffee and ice.

In my experience status does exist at four seasons.It's just they don'tgive you a shiny card (the by invitation program being an exception).
They have your profileif you are a frequent stayed and treat you quietly accordingly.

That said,I am a firm believer that you should always get what you expect when you pay for it.
More is better of course.

There is some market overlap in which properties at the lower end of the Four Seasons spectrum compete directly with the best Hyatt, St. Regis, and R-C properties, but many Four Seasons properties are among the best hotels and resorts in the world and operate in an entirely different market segment.

Based on FT discussion, it seems to me that those who stay the most with Four Seasons are the least in favor of a "loyalty program." I certainly don't ever want to see that happen to Four Seasons.

What is the rationale? Seriously. You have so much money you don't care about points for free rooms? You pay higher rates that include "free" breakfast? You are worried that a loyalty program would overcrowd the lounge?

I have repeat stays at several FS and don't see any recognition. Not that the competition does much better (beyond "Welcome back Boraxo, I see you are a Diamond member and we value your business... I have a nice [inevitably crappy] room for you on the 3rd floor")

did you read any of the discussion? including vibe thread.

you overestimate status benefits, underestimate luxury service/benefits, underestimate the cost/effect of status benefits, underestimate FS rates. outside of asia only 2 FS have clubs. clubs are not the only guest-only areas.

this forum is mostly paid leisure travel to top properties. even amanresorts and peninsula are not perfectly consistent. FS has been considered pretty consistent for its size, but there is concern that FS corporate owners are sacrificing service/quality. amanresorts is also having ownership concerns. just two examples of ownership concerns/changes/etc.

to a certain degree, focusing on institutional aspects of large corporate chains gets into the discussions of what makes a luxury hotel and do luxury hotels make money. and actually the concept of luxury in general as well.