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Collective agreement for the pilots being negotiated

Collective agreement for the pilots being negotiated

Old Aug 9, 22, 10:36 am
  #571  
 
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
But then it also made the surge nonsense a thing for a while which was mainly a scam for them to make money rather than actually getting more cars on the street.
Surges are a means to get cars into a certain location because there is demand but to few cars. This is still being used to counter ride fishing by drivers or only having them stand at key intersections.

Did Uber ever become a thing in Sweden? If yes, what were the effects? Sweden is one of the countries were free competition on taxis never caused any benefits for the consumers. Literally only made it worse to be a taxi consumer, though credit cards was always a thing....
Uber works really well in Sweden (I mean Stockholm when I say Sweden) and is anywhere between 30-50% cheaper than regular taxis. Product is the same so I disagree there are no benefits for the consumer, this is exactly the kind of competition I want to see make products cheaper and free up consumer cash flow for other goods and services.
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Old Aug 9, 22, 5:25 pm
  #572  
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose View Post
Surges are a means to get cars into a certain location because there is demand but to few cars. This is still being used to counter ride fishing by drivers or only having them stand at key intersections.



Uber works really well in Sweden (I mean Stockholm when I say Sweden) and is anywhere between 30-50% cheaper than regular taxis. Product is the same so I disagree there are no benefits for the consumer, this is exactly the kind of competition I want to see make products cheaper and free up consumer cash flow for other goods and services.
To be clearer, when I said free competition never brought benefits to the consumer I was referring to the free market chaos that reigned for a long while. Sweden and taxis were actually a place where Uber could be quite useful, hence I asked whether Uber was a thing. The interesting question is then, did the established players like Taxi Stockholm respond, and what is now the price for Arlanda to downton Stockholm?
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Old Aug 10, 22, 9:11 am
  #573  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose View Post
Surges are a means to get cars into a certain location because there is demand but to few cars. This is still being used to counter ride fishing by drivers or only having them stand at key intersections.

Uber works really well in Sweden (I mean Stockholm when I say Sweden) and is anywhere between 30-50% cheaper than regular taxis. Product is the same so I disagree there are no benefits for the consumer, this is exactly the kind of competition I want to see make products cheaper and free up consumer cash flow for other goods and services.
In the part of Sweden where I used to live, some people use FB to order rides with private people

My friend needed to get to CPH very early, so I helped her to post on FB and she got a ride from Lund to CPH for 600 SEK.
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Old Aug 10, 22, 9:56 am
  #574  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose View Post
Uber works really well in Sweden (I mean Stockholm when I say Sweden) and is anywhere between 30-50% cheaper than regular taxis. Product is the same so I disagree there are no benefits for the consumer, this is exactly the kind of competition I want to see make products cheaper and free up consumer cash flow for other goods and services.
You ignored the Ryanair example. Additionally, I'd like to discuss your line of work where it obviously is a need to lower prices, right?
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Old Aug 10, 22, 11:09 am
  #575  
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
That is the exact point of the European Air travel market, it was disrupted by Easyjet and Ryanair to point to the early entrants that are still around. It lead to a revolution in airtravel costs levels, but also obliterated services along the way.

Uber did one good thing for the taxi industry, it added the concept of booking via an app. In some countries the concept was really used to improve services as it added accountability, though interestingly it was often not truly Uber driving the change, but rather a local company taking the lead and basically crushing Uber in the process. I am not sure I see one thing coming from Airbnb that has added a benefit or improvement to my travel experiences more broadly.

We may not like the direction that the disruption has taken European airtravel, but the consumers in general does seem to like it. So that is what we get for it.

The question was not really whether US first class is better or worse than European business class, the question was did competition make US first class a better product? After due consideration I can think of 1 point where competition did lead to a clear improvement, United transcon PS service. But that was an awful long time ago, and since then competition has also gradually eroded that product down to a shadow of what it started as. Price is just the name of the game, and once that is the case it is not about improving services. It is about simplifying processes, outsourcing, finding cheaper suppliers, getting more people on the same aircrafts, turning over every penny and see if there is a way to keep it.

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I see Uber and Airbnb as being good for travel needs in Sweden. They added competition, and that is good for me.

I don’t see what harm Uber did to my getting rides in Stockholm (or anywhere else in Sweden). I don’t see what harm Airbnb has done to my getting lodging for travel needs.

US first/front class service was better for me when there were more competitors. Economy class service was better too. The core physical product is worse in economy class than it used to be. Sort of the same dynamic with the first/front cabin domestically too, but not in the same way and as much as with the economy class cabin.
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Old Aug 10, 22, 6:39 pm
  #576  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
I see Uber and Airbnb as being good for travel needs in Sweden. They added competition, and that is good for me.

I dont see what harm Uber did to my getting rides in Stockholm (or anywhere else in Sweden). I dont see what harm Airbnb has done to my getting lodging for travel needs.

US first/front class service was better for me when there were more competitors. Economy class service was better too. The core physical product is worse in economy class than it used to be. Sort of the same dynamic with the first/front cabin domestically too, but not in the same way and as much as with the economy class cabin.
I don't think I claimed Uber did any harm, just that the surge charging was more a profit scam than an actual means of getting cars out on the road. Apart from adding the app to my taxi rides I just don't see much benefit either, but I could imagine that pricing in Sweden could be one benefit though. Hence I asked, what's the going rate for an Arlanda to town ride these days. Absence of benefits does not equate adding harm.

There were more airlines back in the day, but was there truly more competition? The pressure on price being added by the LCCs and by the ability to compare prices changed the nature of competition in a way that was definitely not good for the services provided in the cabins. But if your view if purely price, of course it was a winner.
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Old Aug 11, 22, 2:58 am
  #577  
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
I don't think I claimed Uber did any harm, just that the surge charging was more a profit scam than an actual means of getting cars out on the road. Apart from adding the app to my taxi rides I just don't see much benefit either, but I could imagine that pricing in Sweden could be one benefit though. Hence I asked, what's the going rate for an Arlanda to town ride these days. Absence of benefits does not equate adding harm.

There were more airlines back in the day, but was there truly more competition? The pressure on price being added by the LCCs and by the ability to compare prices changed the nature of competition in a way that was definitely not good for the services provided in the cabins. But if your view if purely price, of course it was a winner.
If surge pricing motivated neither a reduction nor decline in the number of Uber cars on the road during surge pricing periods, wouldn’t that mean surge pricing motivated an increase in the number of cars gotten onto the road during such periods? I have gained with Uber’s entering the deregulated Swedish market for taxis and other car service.

About airlines “back in the day” before all these governmental waivers and favors legalizing what otherwise would have been illegal collusive behavior by the TATL-flying legacy majors, there truly was more competition; and that “truly more competition” showed up in the value customers got from the airline loyalty programs.

LCCs don’t only compete on price, some also compete on service and other aspects.

Any legacy major player in the sector who has to count on relative opaqueness of pricing and on lack of LCCs in order to sustain or improve its service offering and the value it provides customers has only itself to blame for running a rat race to the bottom and letting slip its major incumbency advantages. No competitor forced SK to gut the value of rebate currency dynamics of its loyalty program for those who fly SK flights — SK did that all on its own.
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Old Aug 11, 22, 9:58 am
  #578  
 
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Originally Posted by Fredrik74 View Post
You ignored the Ryanair example. Additionally, I'd like to discuss your line of work where it obviously is a need to lower prices, right?
I continue to assume that you can either not read or only read what you want. Ryanair is no way desirable competition or a product of any use. It is a worse product for a lower price.
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Old Aug 11, 22, 10:01 am
  #579  
 
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
To be clearer, when I said free competition never brought benefits to the consumer I was referring to the free market chaos that reigned for a long while. Sweden and taxis were actually a place where Uber could be quite useful, hence I asked whether Uber was a thing. The interesting question is then, did the established players like Taxi Stockholm respond, and what is now the price for Arlanda to downton Stockholm?
Honestly I don't know, I haven't used a regular taxi since Uber entered the market and never will again. There are some budget taxi companies that have a price that matches Uber.

The established taxi companies primarily seem to be losing business to Uber and Bolt. Lyft isn't a thing in Stockholm.
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Old Aug 11, 22, 1:19 pm
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose View Post
I continue to assume that you can either not read or only read what you want. Ryanair is no way desirable competition or a product of any use. It is a worse product for a lower price.
Unlike other airlines they're typically profitable.They obviously offer a desirable product. Part of this is having a lower price just like you pretend you want(when it's not your own salary).

You're just repeating your predictable pattern of not understanding how the World works(including its humans).
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Old Aug 11, 22, 1:46 pm
  #581  
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose View Post
Honestly I don't know, I haven't used a regular taxi since Uber entered the market and never will again. There are some budget taxi companies that have a price that matches Uber. The established staxi companies primarily seem to be losing business to Uber and Bolt. Lyft isn't a thing in Stockholm.
I'm not sure to which company/companies the established taxi companies in Sweden are losing at this point. Big taxi/car service purchasers/reimbursers in Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmo seem to still use the big Swedish taxi companies. And beyond Stockholm, Uber is not all that relevant or better than what is available otherwise.

Have LCCs destroyed SK's ability to do better by its customers? I would say they have not by themselves. What has destroyed the ability for SAS to do better by the traveling customers is the twisted mix of a lack of competition, sitting on its legacy major laurels, and management driven to try to be all things to all people while playing copy-cat to try to make the investor community happy at the expense of the customers. In the end, maybe the striking SAS pilots got it best.

Last edited by GUWonder; Aug 11, 22 at 1:52 pm
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Old Aug 11, 22, 5:14 pm
  #582  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
If surge pricing motivated neither a reduction nor decline in the number of Uber cars on the road during surge pricing periods, wouldnt that mean surge pricing motivated an increase in the number of cars gotten onto the road during such periods? I have gained with Ubers entering the deregulated Swedish market for taxis and other car service.

About airlines back in the day before all these governmental waivers and favors legalizing what otherwise would have been illegal collusive behavior by the TATL-flying legacy majors, there truly was more competition; and that truly more competition showed up in the value customers got from the airline loyalty programs.

LCCs dont only compete on price, some also compete on service and other aspects.

Any legacy major player in the sector who has to count on relative opaqueness of pricing and on lack of LCCs in order to sustain or improve its service offering and the value it provides customers has only itself to blame for running a rat race to the bottom and letting slip its major incumbency advantages. No competitor forced SK to gut the value of rebate currency dynamics of its loyalty program for those who fly SK flights SK did that all on its own.
So more competition and the value thereof showed up in what the customers got from the loyalty programs? Then Japan is the epitome of competition, as I have never gotten greater value from my FFP than what I get from JAL....

Opaquenes of pricing isn't that a fundamental part of getting great value from an FFP? You need to study all of the intricacies of each FFP to be able to understand what part of your pricing comes back in form of rebates to be able to compare your price with the competing airline. Admittedly that was less difficult when it was pure flown distance times cabin bonus, and no factors of which specific booking class you were in.
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Old Aug 13, 22, 1:31 pm
  #583  
 
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The value I get from my US FFP is also significantly greater than the value I get from any EU FFP, mostly because their top tiers require actual frequent flying and spending.

Originally Posted by Fredrik74 View Post
Unlike other airlines they're typically profitable.They obviously offer a desirable product. Part of this is having a lower price just like you pretend you want(when it's not your own salary).

You're just repeating your predictable pattern of not understanding how the World works(including its humans).
To some people dude, this is why public transport exists, because some groups of people don't have a choice. Its not doing anything for significant groups of other people and in fact, doing more harm there than good for their aviation needs (or what public transport does to their parking needs). The question is, which group are you in and the majority of people posting here? Do you want more Ryanair and less legacy airlines to your disposal?

Last edited by FlyingMoose; Aug 13, 22 at 1:56 pm
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Old Aug 13, 22, 2:23 pm
  #584  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose View Post
To some people dude, this is why public transport exists, because some groups of people don't have a choice. Its not doing anything for significant groups of other people and in fact, doing more harm there than good for their aviation needs (or what public transport does to their parking needs).
Sorry for offtopic, but that must be one of the most backwards attempts at reasoning I've seen on the interwebs, and I've been around this thing for a long time.
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Old Aug 14, 22, 8:27 am
  #585  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose View Post
The value I get from my US FFP is also significantly greater than the value I get from any EU FFP, mostly because their top tiers require actual frequent flying and spending.
UA miles were so handy as they charge relatively low YQ even on LH flights, while other FFP (including OZ) charges a lot (I paid $700) for a long haul LH redemption.
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