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-   -   UA flight diverted (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/591165-ua-flight-diverted.html)

GUWonder Aug 16, 2006 5:32 pm


Originally Posted by Bart
Interesting, as always, to read the comments made in these forums by the Monday Morning Quarterbacks. Once again, it's all about context and perspective:

1. The flight departed out of London which, in case you haven't noticed, is Ground Zero for this latest terrorist plot. So, of course, the pilots, crew members and authorities are going to be extra sensitive to anything that is remotely suspicious or out-of-the-ordinary on these flights.

2. I don't have any additional insights into the response procedures. However, I assume that because of the slow military response on 9/11, military aircraft are specifically on call to respond as soon as there's any sign of trouble. I don't know what was transmitted or how information was conveyed, but I presume the conventional wisdom was to get the fighters airborne and then recall them if not needed than to wait until a definite need was confirmed before sending them up. To reasonable people, this should make sense.

3. While relying on the media to account for what happened, I think we can safely assume that the flight crew acted professionally and handled this matter accordingly. While the media and overanxious worry warts on the ground were speculating about what was going on in the aircraft, I think what we'll find out is that the crew members had everything under control but followed very specific procedures detailed for flights originating out of the UK.

Had this been on a different flight, say from New Orleans to Atlanta, then perhaps we would be right in expecting a different response. But this flight did originate from London and was flying into Washington DC. It fit the parameters for what the bad guys were trying to do.

1. Ground Zero for this latest terrorist plot was not London. At most, that'd be somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean; at least, it'd be Pakistan or -- if buying the Pakistani government's latest spin -- Afghanistan.

2. That's how it "works", but not necessarily "reasonable" -- especially not given these circumstances.

3. It cannot be systematically assumed that the flight crew acted professionally and handled this matter accordingly. There are an increasing number of paranoid and nervous nelly persons in the air, both passengers and crews.

4. London-DC flights are not what the latest persons arrested in the UK, Pakistan and Italy had even researched most. ;) Of course, there will be people that will arrive at conjecture after the fact to explain away the "official" reactions for anything and everything under the sun -- and those justifications are, implicitly, Monday Morning Quarterbacking.

GUWonder Aug 16, 2006 5:36 pm


Originally Posted by chartreuse
Wouldn't the presence of LEOs be SOP regardless? And do we have any reason to believe that she is being charged other than reports via already discredited media sources?

Sending her and her belongings to LEOs for questioning and searching before the hospital would put your theory to bed -- for that's a clear indication that her health situation was deemed a less pressing matter than a law enforcement/security investigation.

chartreuse Aug 16, 2006 5:44 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder
Sending her and her belongings to LEOs for questioning and searching before the hospital would put your theory to bed -- for that's a clear indication that her health situation was deemed a less pressing matter than a law enforcement/security investigation.

But do we have hard evidence that that's what happened? We don't know whether EMTs were with the LEOs, we don't even know whether her condition at landing was such as to indicate hospitalisation.

As I've said, we're operating on fragmented, unreliable info, which is perfectly suited to being used to advance all types of agenda.

GUWonder Aug 16, 2006 5:49 pm


Originally Posted by chartreuse
But do we have hard evidence that that's what happened? We don't know whether EMTs were with the LEOs, we don't even know whether her condition at landing was such as to indicate hospitalisation.

As I've said, we're operating on fragmented, unreliable info, which is perfectly suited to being used to advance all types of agenda.

There's hard evidence -- if that's what you call doj emails and telephone calls discussing the matter -- that she was questioned by federal law enforcement. ;)

chartreuse Aug 16, 2006 5:54 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder
There's hard evidence -- if that's what you call doj emails and telephone calls discussing the matter -- that she was questioned by federal law enforcement. ;)

But no hard evidence as to the environment in which said questioning was carried out (e.g. while under the care of an EMT etc) or the time (e.g. after medical care). And nothing about any other pax who may have been questioned?

GUWonder Aug 16, 2006 6:03 pm


Originally Posted by chartreuse
But no hard evidence as to the environment in which said questioning was carried out (e.g. while under the care of an EMT etc) or the time (e.g. after medical care). And nothing about any other pax who may have been questioned?

On the contrary, hard evidence of where the questioning was done, who it was done by and who were witnesses to the questioning and who else was NOT around the immediate vicinity at the time, who came a bit later, and what was NOT needed. There's also hard evidence of who accessed that information thereafter. ;)

chartreuse Aug 16, 2006 6:25 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder
On the contrary, hard evidence of where the questioning was done, who it was done by and who were witnesses to the questioning and who else was NOT around the immediate vicinity at the time, who came a bit later, and what was NOT needed. There's also hard evidence of who accessed that information thereafter. ;)

Wow, sounds like you know a lot (for avoidance of doubt, I'm English and reserved and am using the word "know" in the sense of only making statements of fact on matters that are proven to one's satisfaction, rather than simple forceful assertions, like the ex Green Beret, ex French Foreign Legion, son of an ambassador who only ever got plum posts, never a lousy one, who I met in a pub the other week who told me very assertively that it was a fact that American Airlines had gone into C11) :)

Any chance as to whether you might rebut the assertions that said woman was any particular shade of foreign? Or whether any other pax got similar questioning?

daw617 Aug 16, 2006 6:57 pm

The following essay seems relevant: http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2006/08...ou-scared.html

Excerpts:

I am just not going to wet my pants every time some guys get arrested in a terror plot. I will do my best to stay informed. I will support the necessary law enforcement agencies. I will take whatever reasonable precautions seem, um, reasonable. But I will not be terrorized. I assume that the terror-ists would like me to be terror-ized, as that is what is says on their nametag, rather than, say, wanting me to surrender to ennui or negative body image, and they're just coming the long way around. [...]

I am absolutely buffaloed by the people who insist I man up and take it in the teeth for the great Clash of Civilizations -- "Come ON, people, this is the EPIC LAST WAR!! You just don't have the stones to face that fact head-on!" -- who at the whiff of an actual terror plot will, with no apparent sense of irony, transform and run around shrieking, eyes rolling and Hello Kitty panties flashing like Japanese schoolgirls who have just realized that the call is coming from inside the house!

I may have shared too much there.

chartreuse Aug 16, 2006 7:23 pm


Originally Posted by daw617
The following essay seems relevant: http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2006/08...ou-scared.html

Excerpts:

Not bad. Of course, over here, we've a long tradition of understanding that most things that can't be fixed by a cup of tea can be fixed by a G&T. For the rest, we have the army.

Bart Aug 16, 2006 8:07 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder
1. Ground Zero for this latest terrorist plot was not London. At most, that'd be somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean; at least, it'd be Pakistan or -- if buying the Pakistani government's latest spin -- Afghanistan.

2. That's how it "works", but not necessarily "reasonable" -- especially not given these circumstances.

3. It cannot be systematically assumed that the flight crew acted professionally and handled this matter accordingly. There are an increasing number of paranoid and nervous nelly persons in the air, both passengers and crews.

4. London-DC flights are not what the latest persons arrested in the UK, Pakistan and Italy had even researched most. ;) Of course, there will be people that will arrive at conjecture after the fact to explain away the "official" reactions for anything and everything under the sun -- and those justifications are, implicitly, Monday Morning Quarterbacking.


You're the quarterback, sport. I won't spoil your game.

GUWonder Aug 16, 2006 8:12 pm


Originally Posted by Bart
You're the quarterback, sport. I won't spoil your game.

That ball doesn't come my way today; nor did it come my way before. No interest in armchair games.

venk Aug 17, 2006 12:11 am

Quiet ironic that the plane landed in the state with a history of hanging women that showed "abnormal behavior".

What a world we live in - we kill and detain people that act "crazy" in the interest of protecting ourselves from the crazies that want to kill us but act perfectly normal.

gnaget Aug 17, 2006 12:23 am

FYI, the interviewed one of the "heros" who tackled the old lady on the local DC news at the baggage claim. He was your stereotypical beefy PE instructor type.

Another genius commented that she was very worried when the woman took a Pepsi can and some poorly described bag to the bathroom.

The woman was a US citizen from Vermont. Maybe she wanted to get off because they were flying over her house. :D

p.s. I love the graphics on the various news channels that suggest that they are members of the Flat Earth Society. A straight shot across the Atlantic with a northern-western detour to Boston. Fox actually showed an arc but it was far south of Newfoundland. Once we did have an unusual flight path that was close to this but headed pretty much straight for Boston south of Newfoundland and then a sharp turn south toward DC.

yogi Aug 17, 2006 1:15 am

Mrs. Yogi was in the BOS RCC today when CNN came on with the news about the dirversion. She and Little Yogi emerged from the club to find MP's in the terminal.
Her flight left on-time and she saw the plane parked off to the side of the airport.

I can't wait to see "Reliable Sources" this Sunday....

Wally Bird Aug 17, 2006 8:27 am


Originally Posted by UNITED959
Couldn't they have flown the extra hour and landed in IAD to avoid all the hassle?

Boston is expendable, Washington isn't.
Still, at least we were spared the sorry spectacle of members of Congress running screaming from the Capitol again.


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