There has been a lot of talk about how trustworthy the TSA is regarding checked baggages. A couple of days ago, I was traveling from JFK to Hong Kong (Terminal 8 at American Airlines). As I was handing the TSA employee my luggage (checked luggage screening), I noticed in the back another employee opening up another traveller's suitcase. What I saw verified the concerns that I have been hearing on how responsible the TSA actually is.

As employee was going through the suitcase, she found some kind of photo album. Although it was quite far away from me, I could make out that they were 8 x 10 photos of either famous people or models. She slowly flipped through the album as if she was on a break - because she took a long time (at least 3 minutes). To add on top of this, after looking at the album and inspecting more of the bag, she found a very fancy dress in which she took out of the suitcase and looked as if she was sizing it on herself. At this time, I had my digital camera ready and attempted to take a picture - because I am certain this is not within the duties of a TSA inspection. Unfortunately, because I turned off the flash to avoid detection (I think you are not allowed to take pictures of this), the photos later turned out to be fuzzy. Fortunately, the woman folded up the dress and carefully put it back in the middle of the suitcase - where it was originally located and zipped up the bag.

During this time, there were 3 other TSA employees - 2 casually talking to each other and 1 that was receiving luggage. Now, I can understand this if there was not much to do but there was a LOT of luggage to be screened. There was no one else doing manual inspections except that woman.

My hope is that the more people complain to the TSA (which I have already done), perhaps we can get some sweeping changes. My family member lost a watch that was in checked luggage a few months ago - and I am now quite certain that it was lost in a simular type of inspection.

I'll make no excuse for what your stating and I don't work baggage.

But the two guys working may have been a Supervisor and Lead. And it depends on the area FSD what these guys do. My area FSD doesnt want them working, unless in extreme cases, otherwise their duties are to watch the screeners or the equipment.

Was there a CTX machine or was it a ETD inspection set up?

And if there was a CTX machine, were there a lot of bags to be inspected after going through it?

And what kind of sweeping changes do you want?

I don't know how it is at every airport, but I will say that I trust my fellow employees to not take anything. We make more than enough to provide ourselves with whatever we need to survive. As for going through a photo album, or looking at a dress or somethin? We do have to flip through books, cd cases, etc... but it should not take 3 minutes to do so. I will, however, make the stand to support my fellow honorable screeners which make up the majority of the TSA. But like they say, one bad apple spoils the bunch.

No kidding?

What I have found the TSA robots respond most strongly to is any indication that you have enough intelligence to know what a farce their behavior is. God forbid they should face a real terrorist; they're more involved in telling actual travelers to lick their behinds.

My wife was almost denied boarding in Seattle for having a "bad attitude" (she didn't say anything particularly cutting, just didn't want to go along with the super-cheerful isn't-this-all-peachy attitude of the TSA agent -- she did have a "bad attitude", I would say -- last time I checked, that was not against the law).

Another time we were chased to the gate by a TSA employee who was desperate to get us to say something he could represent as "threatening", as we had informed him that the TSA website had a different set of rules about shoes than he was spouting. Dumb me, I hadn't printed it (not sure that would have helped, since I cannot swear that he could read). We weren't playing, and didn't give him the "threatening" response he was seeking.

Mostly I'm just quiet and contrite. But I really don't like to lie and pretend it's all for my own good, or that I like it. When they challenge me directly to lie and say how great the TSA molestation is, I just WON'T do it. And then these tiny little petty-bureaucratic wanna-be napoleons get mad and try to make a case. So far, they have failed.

Any wonder US airlines are losing billions?

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"We know you have a choice of airlines" ... the most important frequent-flyer words you heard this week.

I was at JFK last night dropping a passenger off at AA terminal 8. There is a CTX setup for checked luggage screening which is located in the AA check-in lobby.

It was quite late (10:30-11:00pm at the time), so there was very little activity other than a few straggling pax for the LHR 23:55 flight. I hope this helps in reference to the OP's question.

Best,

SDF_Traveler

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

It's not against the law to be a jerk to a screener but it's just going to add needless stress to your travels. Plus it tends to bring out the point-nazis who enjoy screwing with passengers. If a screener is treating you with courtesy you should respond in kind.

You know, CATSA screener, that just shows how valuable and worthwhile this whole setup is.

What you have just said is that you will treat us worse if for some reason you don't like us because we don't kowtow to you. That is what you just said, eh?

If I go to Mickey D's and am growly, they give me the sandwich and fries.

If I check in with the airline and tell them the day is going badly, they still give me a boarding pass.

If my wife tells Seattle TSA security she doesn't care to be pleased with useless molestations (they were groping her even though she hadn't beeped, just because she wore her shoes, even though the TSA website said that was fine), they threaten her with not allowing flight because of her "attitude".

It did happen. It was outrageous. Personally, I would rather take the risk of being killed in a hijacking than have to put up with more class-warfare attitudinal molestation from "security" goons.

These idiots get off on exercising their power over us just because we can afford airline tickets. You know, I am not rich. I work hard for my money, and much of that work involves travelling. Being harassed by TSA jerks who haven't a clue about stopping a terrorist but are expert in harassing middle-aged ladies because they don't want to take off their shoes.... cry me a river, please. Your confreres are often real cases. I am willing to believe you are not that bad, but mostly 'cause you post here.

Otherwise, my experience is that 90% of TSA screeners wouldn't know a terrorist if (s)he gave them box-cutters, but can sure tell a 100% full blooded liberty-loving and sh*t-hating American or Canadian who doesn't take crap from petty bureaucrats a mile away. Because they zero in on us to give us grief. Really, where is the evidence that somebody who expresses negative opinions about unreasonable searches is a likely threat? All evidence is that the REAL TERROROSTS will give in to your every demand.

Unfortunately, those TSA turds have our livelihoods in their hands, and we need to pretend to be nice. I hate it. My wife is a little more vocal than me. She hates it so much I have had to eat real crap to get us on planes. Are you happy? Do you like making people hate you? Are you so stupid that you think that piddle-squat terrorist game you guys play makes us any safer? Huh? Huh?

Okay, now that I've vented a little: how about some attention to what would really make us more secure.

Start with statistics. The whole molest-everyone theory is to not be prejudiced. Do you think banks aren't prejudiced when they give out mortgage money? Trust me, your security will be much more effective if you evaluate the likelihood that any one person is a threat.

Second, look at terrorist actions. Most involve anniversaries. Tim McVeigh, Mohammed Atta, most of the rest: they are enamored of symbolism. Doesn't that tell you something?

Finally, examine purpose. The current system is just doing the work of Osama & pals by putting such a strain on airlines that some may go out of business.

You know, 99% of what you guys do is window-dressing to protect the behinds of politicians who "have to do something".

Very little of it is useful security. I have been through effective security in England, Italy, Greece, New Zealand and Australia in the last few years. All of them were professional and made us feel that we were all participating in the bad-guy-hunt.

I have not flown out of a Canadian airport for some years, because of the outrageous taxes, so cannot comment personally on you guys. Maybe you're as good as the Europeans and antipodeans.

But here in the good ole USA, they hire fast-food rejects who are trigger-happy with attitude. Cmon, guys, you're supposed to be stopping terrorism, not venting your life's distresses on people you see as better off than you.

But that is the repeated message I get at US TSA checkpoints. We harass you because we can, you are a sh*t because you fly a lot, we control the horizontal and vertical and you'd better like it or we will make you eat dirt.

That is it OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

You know, we fly out of the same airport twice a month. We have learned which ones have the ATTITUDE and which ones don't. Unfortunately, we cannot avoid the ones with a big chip on their shoulder. And no complaints work; the manager DENIED that my printout of TSA policy was real.

You see, they know we have a big desire to catch that plane. Because our livelihoods or enjoyments depend on it. So they can treat us like dog doo-doo to be scraped from their shoes. And they get away with it because any complaints are "unpatriotic" or "terrorist".

Not having a nice day is "terrorist".

You know, I would be a lot more understanding if I was just being checked, as at Athens or Gatwick or Rome or Sydney; but telling us that we create our own problems by not being false sweetness and light when we are asked to lie about our feelings is just a bit much.

I am willing to take the risk that someone might blow up my plane. It would be a surer and less painful end than the constant trashing I get from TSA.



[This message has been edited by LexPassenger (edited 11-10-2003).]

No doubt that security does keep some from flying but to say that the airlines are losing billions and will fail altogether is far from the truth. Unions and executives with big paychecks are eating up the profits. Do your homework.

Wow, quite an epic rant. Look Lex, no one requires you to like it. You just choose to do it when you choose to fly. I've got it figured out. I know what they are looking for. They want shoes off, fine they come off....for Christ's sake, were dealing with shoes here, no more, no less. Anyone who wastes time and energy getting their blood pressure up over shoes has their priorities way out of whack. Here is the kicker. Some folks hate screening no matter what. I detect that in you. Fine, hate it....its America. However it's not going away.....ever. If Gov�t employees do it, or some fly by night security company (like at SFO) does it, TSA MAKES THE RULES OF THE GAME AND WE CHOOSE TO PLAY. Rudeness for no reason should not be accepted, but going into screening with a chip on your shoulder will evoke a response in kind. This is life 101 stuff here. Every encounter with a TSA person that you grind down on reflects negatively on all FFrs and helps absolutely NOTHING. Show up for your flight, get screened, and move on, the end. I�ve had a few run ins with TSA, but I learned how to deal with them. Since then, no issues at all. Lastly, TSA is not costing the airlines $$. Corporate execs w/fat salaries, mechanics and flight attendants with union deals, not to mention pilots raking in big $ with overtime while providing crappy service is what is driving the airlines down the toilet. Now my rant is done.

Wrong.

Today it's your shoes, tomorrow it's your pants. A strip-search by any other name is still filthy, unnecessary harassment. And the real crime is that the Shoe Carnival does nothing (read: ZERO) for security. Put plastique in underwear, harassment thwarted. Quickly. Easily. Painlessly.

The TSA makes the rules and we have no say in the matter? By God, no. And more to the point, to hell with that. I pay for the TSA and each and every time I am ripped off with useless, harassing "security", the harasser is going to hear about it, the manager of the harasser is going to hear about it, the toll-free TSA hotline is going to hear about it and every couple of occurrances, my elected representives will hear about it.

Spotting BS security isn't rocket science.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

LexPassenger,

You need to understand one thing. That website isn't exaclty helpful. You guys can go and read it all you want. TSA higher ups put one thing out to the public and then put something completely different out to the screeners.

We've made it clear that the shoe policy will piss people off to our management at are airport. But the fact is, with the shoe in place, pretty they want all shoes to come off or you get screened. The website doesn't say that but thats the policy we screeners are having to enforce.

And me having to be cheerful and such, I'm sorry it's my job. I have to be customer service all the way, even in the face of someone being rude. Can I call a supervisor if I feel this person is started to get upset, yup I can, but won't. I don't mind gettting someone venting to me, I understand why. But I won't stand for it going from rude, to personal attacks against me or physical assaults against me.

I go in and do my job. My job is going to bring me a lot of grief and pressure through out the day. But I live with it. This would all go alway if TSA got a clue but they haven't. I don't make it a point to harass passengers, as I get no pleasure out of it.


As for the terrorists comments, nope we never recieved training for it. We don't recieve photos of guys/gals that might possibly be in the US and should watch out for. TSA answer, is to treat everyone as a terrorists.

But for some reason a lot of people in the public can't connect point A to poinct C(A=Screeners, C=Higher Ups). They make us do these policies but the public blames the screeners themselves thinking it's our faults. Sorry if you ring but your shoes appear "susipicuos" as the site says, then you have to be screened. If the Supervisor/ Lead demands we do counties checks, then we have to.

LexPassenger I have no clue how many airports you fly out of, I don't know all the treatment you've gotten at them but understand something, we're their doing a job that we have to for the time being. There are policies in place that you don't even know or only half understand. I understand some screeners might be on power trips, or it might be like with me, that we're just tired of TSA and how it expresses it's policy to the public and then how they give them to us.

BTW CATSAscreener isn't a TSA screener. But he's shown that he takes his job very serious but he won't stand for people treating him like dirt. Thats your problem to isn't it, you feel your treated like dirt?

screenerx: you're right, I really get upset with the minority of screeners who seem to get their jollies lording it over people.

I understand it is the bosses who make up these inane rules.

At OGG there is a shoe machine -- it registers if your shoes have metal in them and will beep at the screening machine -- and you don't have to take your shoes off if you don't want to, and not taking off your shoes is not treated like a capital offense.

Here in LEX, if you don't take off your shoes, EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T BEEP, you are sent to secondary. They say it's a rule. Well, it's not a rule in SAN or OGG or even DCA. When I asked the supervisor in September I was told to shut up and that he checked the website every morning so I couldn't possibly know what I was talking about. So they get to make up their own rules?

And you see, even though you guys are hired for these jobs, most of it is pointless hocus-pocus. I do try to be polite; but at Seattle my wife's politeness -- yes, she was clearly exhibiting a clear, unliked constraint with it, but it was VERY polite -- was interpreted as "attitude". We were straightforwardly told that we could not fly that day if she couldn't pretend to be nice to the boarding pass checker!!!! Supervisors were called, and we were turned over to a very nice lady whose job seemed to be mollifying passengers whose only crime was a bad breakfast.

"If you're not nice to me you're not flying today." It was that crude. I still burn at the memory. AND IT DOESN'T HELP AT ALL KEEP THE BAD GUYS OFF THE PLANES. PROBABLY, it makes it EASIER for the BAD GUYS to get on the planes.

You didn't build the system. But you are the point people we interact with, and some of your fellow screeners are sadistic little gestapo types who like nothing better than to prove their power to those rich people who can afford airplane tickets.

"You didn't build the system. But you are the point people we interact with, and some of your fellow screeners are sadistic little gestapo types who like nothing better than to prove their power to those rich people who can afford airplane tickets."

I agree that some might act that way. But you need to understand, that a lot of them are coming from military and police backgrounds, and it takes a few years to get out of that mind set.

Not saying all screeners are like these that came from the military or police, but some are. Some have openly admitted this to me in conversation at work but I've seen them tone down.

But one thing I would like to say, is the screeners in place now will be better then the ones before. If TSA makes a system that works and keeps people safe and happy, this screeners will be able to enforce and do those policies much better because of their backgrounds.

I might have upset a few screeners with and I do apologize for it, I didn't get the wording the way I wanted it.

Please don't be condescending.

It doesn't take a tremendous amount of brain power to observe/read you agency's policies, figure out why they're in place, and see through the illusion that they're meant to create while easily figuring out how to circumvent them.

Maybe your agency assumes that the traveling public has no working knowledge of material science, engineering, chemistry, probability theory & statistics, electricity & magnetism, or other disciplines that would allow them to see through these policies the way an x-ray sees through an empty cardboard box. Your agency couldn't be more wrong.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

all is lost

[This message has been edited by Fenito (edited Dec 21, 2003).]