Suicide Bomber at Moscow Airport-1/24/11
Jan 24, 2011, 3:33 pm
#76
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Miami, Nice
Programs: Marriott Titanium, AA Concierge Key, Delta, United, Emorates, and others
Posts: 4,694
I do not see the connection between Russia terrorist risks and US ones, but I am confident that overreaction is a time-honored US technique. Despite the reality that DME outside the secure areas is a madhouse with parking and people milling around as they did at places like ORD and LAX forty years ago. there is not much restriction of movement near the facilties, where this incident seems to ahve happened.
It seems quite likely that curbside checkin might be a near term US fatality, as might more total airport control restrictions like those that were imposed in Japan during the height of the red Army worries with armored personnall carriers and checkpoints for all vehicles, including baggage inspections. I hope that does not happen but it certainly seems logical to expect that it might.
It seems quite likely that curbside checkin might be a near term US fatality, as might more total airport control restrictions like those that were imposed in Japan during the height of the red Army worries with armored personnall carriers and checkpoints for all vehicles, including baggage inspections. I hope that does not happen but it certainly seems logical to expect that it might.
Jan 24, 2011, 3:58 pm
#77
Join Date: Dec 2010
Programs: One Pass Gold, Delta Medallion , Avis, Hertz, Budget, most hotels
Posts: 462
The power-hungry bureaucracy of DHS/TSA won't stop pushing to expand their powers until they have a screening team at the front-door of every house. Citizens will "implicitly consent" to a search by exiting their front door. 
Seriously, if they think they can get away with it, TSA will keep expanding the perimeter as long as the courts/congress/people let them get away with it. They can move it to the airport door, then to the airport-grounds-entrance, then to the roads, etc.
Seriously, if they think they can get away with it, TSA will keep expanding the perimeter as long as the courts/congress/people let them get away with it. They can move it to the airport door, then to the airport-grounds-entrance, then to the roads, etc.
As studentff points out, how far out would TSA move the security perimeter? The terminal entrance, the parking lot, when you leave your door? This strategy is simply unsustainable and more efficient and effective strategies must be pursued.
It's time TSA got ahead of these events instead or over-reacting to past terrorist tactics. This just makes it easier for the terrorists to devise a new method while TSA is busy trying to play catch up.
More intrusion, more loss of liberty and less security. All at a cost we can’t afford.
Jan 24, 2011, 4:10 pm
#78
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: AA, DL
Posts: 326
I know it's totally OT, but I don't see how this reinforces that TSA must adopt the Israeli model.
I'm not convinced that the Israeli model could be successfully implemented in the US, or that if it were, it would improve my travel experience.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Jan 28, 2011 at 7:42 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Jan 24, 2011, 4:16 pm
#79
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,972
No, it doesn't and that part of the statement is one with which I don't completely agree. But I think the main point is valid: once you try to make a potential suicide bomber blend in within a "uncontrolled" environment as the US is, it becomes much harder to maintain the degree of fanaticalism necessary for one to perform as a suicide bomber. That means that such a person will, by necessity, have to stand out and it's much easier to locate such a person.
Jan 24, 2011, 4:16 pm
#80
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,974
Jan 24, 2011, 4:56 pm
#81
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Monterey Bay Area
Programs: Independent Libertarian
Posts: 326
What is the Reason?
Would it be reasonable to determine the CAUSE of terrorist acts and try to resolve that? Or is the answer to continue to ramp up security until you cannot leave your house without being checked?
Jan 24, 2011, 5:06 pm
#82
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Originally Posted by battensea
People waiting to pick up passengers in India don't have to contend with sub-zero (Fahrenheit) temperatures.
And while waiting in the freezing weather can be awful -- especially when electrical power, heating source and water supplies are irregular -- waiting outside in the extremes of heat in much more of India isn't doing anything to protect lives either -- especially as it merely creates bottle-necks regardless of temperatures. People in India do die as a result of exposure to freezing temperatures even as many do die as a result of exposure to extremely high temperatures too.
The US following India's course in this regard makes no sense -- regardless of the majority of US airport hubs for the US majors regularly having much colder weather than the international airports in India.
No, it doesn't and that part of the statement is one with which I don't completely agree. But I think the main point is valid: once you try to make a potential suicide bomber blend in within a "uncontrolled" environment as the US is, it becomes much harder to maintain the degree of fanaticalism necessary for one to perform as a suicide bomber. That means that such a person will, by necessity, have to stand out and it's much easier to locate such a person.
The undercurrent in the above remains the myth of American exceptionalism and the co-opting power of bubbly consumerism; and added in is the underlying myth that violent fanatics behave in a way that is routinely predictable by the voodoo "security" specialists seeking out "dangerous people" rather than "dangerous items".
If it only were as simple as some suggest above, Afghanistan, India, Iraq, Israel, Pakistan, Russia or Sri Lanka would have disappeared suicide bombing as a terrorist tactic over a decade ago.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Jan 28, 2011 at 7:43 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Jan 24, 2011, 5:22 pm
#83
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,974
And that doesn't include terrorists who are simply mad (as in mental not angry).
I'm not even going to mention foreign policy.
Jan 24, 2011, 5:23 pm
#84
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 331
It would but I suspect that TSA and other groups who could profit from this tragedy would not be able to implement their latest invasive and expensive processes. I really hope everyone keeps an eye on the details that come out of Russia and understands how it applies, or doesn't, to the US. People need to be informed. Ma and Pa Kettle are more likely to be scared and demand more protection from DHS and TSA, not less....which is a sad sad thing.
Jan 24, 2011, 5:30 pm
#85
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Stated as well as I could ever wish to state it.
Jan 24, 2011, 6:20 pm
#86
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: SW Rapid Rewards, Hilton Honors, Marriott, Avis First
Posts: 4,831
I would really like to hear from all the folks that say that if we just give up a few of our freedoms and liberties then we could be saved from the terrorists.
Russia is hardly a fount of liberty and freedom and yet a suicide bomber managed to kill 35 people and injure a hundred more.
Under the theory that less liberty and freedom means more safety from the terrorist, how could this possibly have occurred?
Russia is hardly a fount of liberty and freedom and yet a suicide bomber managed to kill 35 people and injure a hundred more.
Under the theory that less liberty and freedom means more safety from the terrorist, how could this possibly have occurred?
Jan 24, 2011, 7:13 pm
#87
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
Joe Sharkey on security airports - can't be done
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/25/bu...25road.html?hp
The experts have long contended that serious holes in security at airports have been neglected while most of the effort and money goes into looking for weapons on passengers at checkpoints.
But they have also warned that a sensational incident in one place can lead to widespread overreaction and demands for quick fixes.
“It always does,” said Bruce Schneier, a security technology consultant and author who has long argued that there is no such thing as perfect security, and that pretending otherwise is foolish.
But they have also warned that a sensational incident in one place can lead to widespread overreaction and demands for quick fixes.
“It always does,” said Bruce Schneier, a security technology consultant and author who has long argued that there is no such thing as perfect security, and that pretending otherwise is foolish.
Jan 24, 2011, 7:14 pm
#88
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 21,606
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/25/bu...25road.html?hp
The experts have long contended that serious holes in security at airports have been neglected while most of the effort and money goes into looking for weapons on passengers at checkpoints.
But they have also warned that a sensational incident in one place can lead to widespread overreaction and demands for quick fixes.
“It always does,” said Bruce Schneier, a security technology consultant and author who has long argued that there is no such thing as perfect security, and that pretending otherwise is foolish.
But they have also warned that a sensational incident in one place can lead to widespread overreaction and demands for quick fixes.
“It always does,” said Bruce Schneier, a security technology consultant and author who has long argued that there is no such thing as perfect security, and that pretending otherwise is foolish.
Somebody appears to still have some common sense...