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Suicide Bomber at Moscow Airport-1/24/11

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Old Jan 24, 2011, 11:17 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by alanR
Which begs the question - why are such attacks so rare? There are plenty of people willing to kill themselves, the skill to create the bombs exists and ingredients aren't hard to find in most countries
Could be either of these four possibilities :

1) It's hard to recruit and train suicide bombers and so there is a very limited supply
2) It's hard to get terrorists into the US (doubtful)
3) The terrorists are targeting other countries and have given up on attacking the US (again not likely)
4) The terrorists are stupid and are easily caught. I don't think this is the case though since so few have been caught.

I think #1 is the most likely scenario. There have not been many terrorists caught in the act of planning an attack. It could be number 2 as well though I guess but you would think they could smuggle people in through the southern border.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 11:25 am
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Originally Posted by maniac78
Could be either of these four possibilities :

1) It's hard to recruit and train suicide bombers and so there is a very limited supply
2) It's hard to get terrorists into the US (doubtful)
3) The terrorists are targeting other countries and have given up on attacking the US (again not likely)
4) The terrorists are stupid and are easily caught. I don't think this is the case though since so few have been caught.

I think #1 is the most likely scenario. There have not been many terrorists caught in the act of planning an attack. It could be number 2 as well though I guess but you would think they could smuggle people in through the southern border.
I would go for #1 with a side of #4. Both the shoe and underwear bombers would have had a better chance of success if they had tried to detonate their bombs in the lav where passengers could not react so quickly. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out, so my conclusion is that the typical suicide bomber is not of the highest level of intelligence or mental stability that would help assure success for their mission.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 11:28 am
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Originally Posted by alanR
Based on their main principle of "planning to fight the last war" no doubt the TSA will require anyone entering arrivals to go through security checks
Just moving the crowd to another location. The question is, what is the DHS tasked to protect, and how much is the individual willing to sacrifice for safety?
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 11:42 am
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Originally Posted by sbagdon
Just moving the crowd to another location. The question is, what is the DHS tasked to protect, and how much is the individual willing to sacrifice for safety?
exactly, and a terrorist can always "create" his own crowd at a desired location by causing a movement out of the airport into some other area, etc. somewhat like the practice of using delayed secondary explosions near the site of a primary attack. not things you can handle just with tech.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 11:46 am
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Originally Posted by Chellian
More importantly, though, we need to mourn those lost to terrorist attacks. In giving their lives the gravity and value they deserve, they retain their individuality and difference, an important element both of social respect and of avoiding the hysteria used to use a number of bodies to sensationalize an issue.
^ Couldn't agree more.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 11:48 am
  #51  
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Originally Posted by alanR
Based on their main principle of "planning to fight the last war" no doubt the TSA will require anyone entering arrivals to go through security checks
I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this happen. Perhaps be like India, where you have to have a BP to enter the airport?

Either way, expect the typical TSA overreaction in 3.....2.....1....
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 12:02 pm
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Originally Posted by nachtnebel
exactly, and a terrorist can always "create" his own crowd at a desired location by causing a movement out of the airport into some other area, etc. somewhat like the practice of using delayed secondary explosions near the site of a primary attack. not things you can handle just with tech.
The best mission-statement I can come up with for the TSA is to prevent a form of transporation to be turned into a tool of strategic destruction. Each form of transporation is turned into a tool in different ways, so each form of transportation requires different strategic methods of prevention. Other forms of critical infrastructure would be protected by other departements of the DHS, or would be accepted as the responsbility of other law enforcement organizations.

If the TSA (or DHS, by upward extension) attempts to use administrative searches from the airport on the general population (sure, and why not just declare martial law, and revoke the fourth amendment?), this is either going to get very interesting, or we're going to enter a new paradigm. At this rate, assembly of individuals is going to go through a huge shift in reality.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 12:14 pm
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Originally Posted by FriendlySkies
I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this happen. Perhaps be like India, where you have to have a BP to enter the airport?

Either way, expect the typical TSA overreaction in 3.....2.....1....
People waiting to pick up passengers in India don't have to contend with sub-zero (Fahrenheit) temperatures.

Besides, the crowds waiting outside the terminals for arriving passengers are also ridiculously huge. Yet another opportunity for mayhem.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 12:20 pm
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Gargoyle
That possibility has been brought up here for many years, but it's going to come as a big surprise for the TSA. Therefore, they'll probably do their usual panicked knee-jerk response, rather than instituting a well though out and developed policy.
Nah, they'd never believe us paranoid nut cases in FT TS&S.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 12:28 pm
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Raw Video of DME Airport Blast

(Warning: Some Disturbing Scene)
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 12:33 pm
  #56  
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Originally Posted by alanR
Which begs the question - why are such attacks so rare? There are plenty of people willing to kill themselves, the skill to create the bombs exists and ingredients aren't hard to find in most countries
The issue is finding suicide bombers here in the US - or getting foreign-sourced ones into the US. The latter takes some time and planning, but trust me, it's not hard. Train them and get them here on student visas - easy as pie if they're off DHS radar (which is not hard).

I've been worried about soft targets for years - hospitals, shopping malls, restaurants, theaters, street corners. I don't know why we haven't been hit in those places yet, but I fear it's only a matter of time. These are relatively easy, low cost operations to mount and very hard to disrupt if the so-called "chatter" is kept to a minimum.

Right now I'm more worried about the TSA's response to this incident - their unrivaled incompetence will surely give way to some spectacularly asinine "solution" designed not to keep us safe, but to show the public and Congress they're "on top of the situation"
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 12:36 pm
  #57  
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Originally Posted by battensea
People waiting to pick up passengers in India don't have to contend with sub-zero (Fahrenheit) temperatures.

Besides, the crowds waiting outside the terminals for arriving passengers are also ridiculously huge. Yet another opportunity for mayhem.
Can you imagine people waiting outside of BOS, EWR, ORD, SFO, etc? That just makes a perfect target for a suicide bomber. Detonate while hundreds of people are waiting outside.

Originally Posted by bocastephen
The issue is finding suicide bombers here in the US - or getting foreign-sourced ones into the US. The latter takes some time and planning, but trust me, it's not hard. Train them and get them here on student visas - easy as pie if they're off DHS radar (which is not hard).

I've been worried about soft targets for years - hospitals, shopping malls, restaurants, theaters, street corners. I don't know why we haven't been hit in those places yet, but I fear it's only a matter of time. These are relatively easy, low cost operations to mount and very hard to disrupt if the so-called "chatter" is kept to a minimum.

Right now I'm more worried about the TSA's response to this incident - their unrivaled incompetence will surely give way to some spectacularly asinine "solution" designed not to keep us safe, but to show the public and Congress they're "on top of the situation"
I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to look at attacking hotels in the next few years. We saw what happened in Mumbai.. As you said, it's only a matter of time before something like this happens in a crowded hotel lobby, mall, etc..
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 12:51 pm
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Originally Posted by sbagdon
Just moving the crowd to another location. The question is, what is the DHS tasked to protect, and how much is the individual willing to sacrifice for safety?
Did you mean "willing to sacrifice for the perception of safety"?

BTW, the media second-guessing has started. Washington Post has a poll up here asking if there should be security in baggage claim areas.

When I looked, 52% said yes..... politicians have claimed a "mandate" with lower numbers than that.... baaaah, baaaah
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 1:08 pm
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http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/wor...ing.cnn?hpt=T1

Right around 3:45. "Expect the barrier to get further and further back. Not just departures, the airport door. Then the roadway leading to the terminal, then down the road from the airport."

This incident will probably push the barrier for Class X airports back to the curb, then slowly working their way back to Class I airports. Then when the next incident (at a major hub, anywhere in the world) involves a car outside the terminal, expect possible further pushback?

Other reports that the (suicide?) bomber was female.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 1:12 pm
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Russian's intelligence/law enforcement services hasn't been too effective lately in identifying threats and preventing these types of spontaneous explosions lately.

Our own U.S. Homeland Security (including TSA) has been lucky thus far in the illusionary effects of keeping America safe from yet another "attack" - even if we're to create a secured zone 1/2 miles from the airport's arrival & departure roadways and start screening everyone, everything and anything that move (car, taxi, van, bikes, trucks & service vehicles, etc.) - the results would still be of questionable outcome. Employees, suppliers and vendors are still mostly roaming freely - especially those with a government photo id in uniform with a badge of some sort, not subject to the same standards of screening as the masses.

Actually, I'm surprised that only one device (based on latest on-scene reporting) detonated and there're no secondaries to inflict more harm, damages, choas and destructions - we are getting the facts, but only some of the details and the rest has yet to surface, will become clearer as time go by.
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