Oneworld booking and pricing experiences
Feb 14, 2017, 1:49 am
#646
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
Posts: 12,757
Feb 14, 2017, 11:36 am
#650
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: None any more
Posts: 11,017
Feb 15, 2017, 4:27 pm
#651
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SAN
Programs: Lots of faux metal
Posts: 6,425
Feb 20, 2017, 10:38 pm
#652
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 89
Hi experts! I need your help...again.
I'd like to make a change to my husband's DONE4. Currently he has san-phx-den-phx-san. I don't think that is good use of this ticket, as we can fly SAN to DEN inexpensively. So, we are considering the Caribbean. The issue I am running into is the transcon rule (rule K). We use our Transcon for SAN to JFK. In order to get to the Caribbean (open to locations) from SAN, we would have to connect in one of the major airports on the East Coast. I am considering starting at DFW. There are no direct flights from DFW, so it would use all four segments available. If I did that, wouldn't the surface segments (SAN-DFW-SAN) put him over the 16 total segments?
ex-mpm-doh-sin-hkg-nrt-san-jfk-tus-san-phx-den-phx-san-lhr-cdg-doh-sez
Any creative ideas to pull this off?
As always, I appreciate your help!
I'd like to make a change to my husband's DONE4. Currently he has san-phx-den-phx-san. I don't think that is good use of this ticket, as we can fly SAN to DEN inexpensively. So, we are considering the Caribbean. The issue I am running into is the transcon rule (rule K). We use our Transcon for SAN to JFK. In order to get to the Caribbean (open to locations) from SAN, we would have to connect in one of the major airports on the East Coast. I am considering starting at DFW. There are no direct flights from DFW, so it would use all four segments available. If I did that, wouldn't the surface segments (SAN-DFW-SAN) put him over the 16 total segments?
ex-mpm-doh-sin-hkg-nrt-san-jfk-tus-san-phx-den-phx-san-lhr-cdg-doh-sez
Any creative ideas to pull this off?
As always, I appreciate your help!
Feb 21, 2017, 1:09 am
#653
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 7
I've had an interesting issue arise with Qantas, which could be a problem for other people if it's not a one-off, and I'd very much appreciate your thoughts.
I had the same problem as danger and thois - date changes prior to departure (not to the first segment) on a QF-issued oneworld explorer are having QF state that the ticket must be repriced. I think I've worked out why this is - Qantas is interpreting the fare rules to be read together - i.e., that a) and b) of the rules (briefly pasted below) both apply at once.
That is, their interpretation is that date changes are permitted, only if ticketed points are the same, these [date & time only] changes 'to [the] ticketed points' require a $125 fee, and changes to the cities flown to aren't permitted at all. By their interpretation, this is why they're then trying to reprice one of the popular ex-MPM/JNB/CAI fares for a date change, as fares from those countries have risen in price.
A follow-on from their interpretation is apparently that changes to the flown cities after departure would again require a reprice due to paragraph d) (again, briefly below),
Their logic here is essentially reading out a few words, to be along the lines of 'If rerouting results (which they are using as a verb), if there is an increase in the number of continents, or if extra flight segments are charged, the ticket shall be recalculated'.
I spoke to the Qantas Premium desk, the (very lovely) consultant there spoke to the Premium desk's oneworld explorer expert, and they checked with the team leader at the ticketing desk in Auckland, and they're staying firm.
Obviously, I disagree with their interpretation, and it's certainly novel compared to everything else I've seen reported, but I'm struggling to convince them of that. I see how they've got to their position, they see mine, but they're adamant that they're right and I'm wrong (and I'm not sure how I, as a traveller, can convince Qantas how to read their own fare rules differently). I'm going to talk to them again tomorrow and keep going. This may arise for anybody with a QF-issued explorer in the future if they want to re-route, so I thought it would be worth sounding out before I do so.
Alternatively, since I'm not familiar with it, under what circumstances can I have another carrier to take over the ticket? Are they going to be happy to do so, will the notes in the booking (QF are quoting 'the ticketing desk has already noted this in the booking' as though it's final) cause problems at another carrier, and so on?
I had the same problem as danger and thois - date changes prior to departure (not to the first segment) on a QF-issued oneworld explorer are having QF state that the ticket must be repriced. I think I've worked out why this is - Qantas is interpreting the fare rules to be read together - i.e., that a) and b) of the rules (briefly pasted below) both apply at once.
Originally Posted by oneworld Explorer rules s16.a)1.
Prior to departure
(a) Changes are permitted provided ticketed points remain the same. If the first flight coupon is being changed, and the fare level has increased since ticket issuance, the difference between the old and new fare will be charged. If the fare level has decreased since ticket issuance, no refund will apply.
(b) Changes to ticketed points are permitted at a charge of USD125.00 per transaction. If the fare level has increased since ticket issuance, the difference between the old and new fare will also be charged. If the fare level has decreased since ticket issuance, no refund will apply.
(a) Changes are permitted provided ticketed points remain the same. If the first flight coupon is being changed, and the fare level has increased since ticket issuance, the difference between the old and new fare will be charged. If the fare level has decreased since ticket issuance, no refund will apply.
(b) Changes to ticketed points are permitted at a charge of USD125.00 per transaction. If the fare level has increased since ticket issuance, the difference between the old and new fare will also be charged. If the fare level has decreased since ticket issuance, no refund will apply.
A follow-on from their interpretation is apparently that changes to the flown cities after departure would again require a reprice due to paragraph d) (again, briefly below),
Originally Posted by oneworld Explorer rules, s.16a)2.d)
If the rerouting results in an increase to the number of continents or extra flight segments previously charged, the ticket shall be recalculated. Ticket may be reissued to any applicable Explorer fare validating all rules of the new fare except for restrictions on retroactive use. Rerouting fee applies when the resulting fare is less than or equal to the original fare. No refund applies. See Upgrading provisions when recalculation results in a new fare basis at a higher value.
I spoke to the Qantas Premium desk, the (very lovely) consultant there spoke to the Premium desk's oneworld explorer expert, and they checked with the team leader at the ticketing desk in Auckland, and they're staying firm.
Obviously, I disagree with their interpretation, and it's certainly novel compared to everything else I've seen reported, but I'm struggling to convince them of that. I see how they've got to their position, they see mine, but they're adamant that they're right and I'm wrong (and I'm not sure how I, as a traveller, can convince Qantas how to read their own fare rules differently). I'm going to talk to them again tomorrow and keep going. This may arise for anybody with a QF-issued explorer in the future if they want to re-route, so I thought it would be worth sounding out before I do so.
Alternatively, since I'm not familiar with it, under what circumstances can I have another carrier to take over the ticket? Are they going to be happy to do so, will the notes in the booking (QF are quoting 'the ticketing desk has already noted this in the booking' as though it's final) cause problems at another carrier, and so on?
Feb 21, 2017, 3:30 am
#654
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Feb 21, 2017, 4:51 am
#655
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,467
SDandi – if I’m understanding what you’re trying to achieve, it is:Also:After all that, here’s my suggestion:
* The train option is pretty good: last November I travelled by train from San Diego Old Town to LA Union Station for USD31.45 and then paid USD9 for the bus from Union Station to LAX
- For your husband to have two Nth American trips as part of his DONE4
- One to New York, which will require 3 segments, because of the restriction of only one trans-continental flight allowed (you have SAN-JFK-TUS-SAN)
- And the other to somewhere in the Caribbean
- As Christep has pointed out, up to six flights are allowed in North America, and therefore your only have three available for the Caribbean trip.
- There are no direct Oneworld flights from SAN to any Caribbean or Central American destination
- New York: SAN-JFK-xxx-LAX; separate flight or train* to get home to SAN
- Caribbean: separate flight or train to LAX, then LAX-yyy-zzz-SAN
Possibilities for yyy are: BZE, MBJ, and a bunch of places in Mexico (CUN, MZT, MEX, PVR, SJD) – source “where we fly” on oneworld.com
* The train option is pretty good: last November I travelled by train from San Diego Old Town to LA Union Station for USD31.45 and then paid USD9 for the bus from Union Station to LAX
Feb 21, 2017, 9:29 am
#656
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 89
Apologies, I left two important pieces out: the lax segement and that tus-san is a surface sector.
ex-mpm-doh-sin-nrt-san-lax-jfk-tus-san-phx-den-phx-san-lhr-cdg-doh-sez
This route is already ticketed, so hopefully my bad typing is what threw it off.
Also:
As Christep has pointed out, up to six flights are allowed in North America, and therefore your only have three available for the Caribbean trip.
There are no direct Oneworld flights from SAN to any Caribbean or Central American destination
As Christep has pointed out, up to six flights are allowed in North America, and therefore your only have three available for the Caribbean trip.
There are no direct Oneworld flights from SAN to any Caribbean or Central American destination
SAN is a disappointing "International" airport.
After all that, here’s my suggestion:
New York: SAN-JFK-xxx-LAX; separate flight or train* to get home to SAN
Caribbean: separate flight or train to LAX, then LAX-yyy-zzz-SAN
Possibilities for yyy are: BZE, MBJ, and a bunch of places in Mexico (CUN, MZT, MEX, PVR, SJD) – source “where we fly” on oneworld.com
New York: SAN-JFK-xxx-LAX; separate flight or train* to get home to SAN
Caribbean: separate flight or train to LAX, then LAX-yyy-zzz-SAN
Possibilities for yyy are: BZE, MBJ, and a bunch of places in Mexico (CUN, MZT, MEX, PVR, SJD) – source “where we fly” on oneworld.com
All great ideas- thank you!
I am SO embarrassed to write this, but this entire time, I was under the impression that a surface sector counted as a segment. ugh.
Thank you!!
Feb 21, 2017, 9:37 am
#657
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
It counts towards the total sector count (this is for technical reasons---the surface sector has to go on the ticket to explain the "gap" between cities) but it doesn't count towards the number of sectors within a continent.
Feb 23, 2017, 9:27 am
#660
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 127
Thank you SDandi
My ex-MPM journey start in next month and very useful info.
When i bought my ticket there wasn`t AY code share to DOH-HEL leg (QR301) but now they have that (AY6004). I tried to change my ticket to that AY6004 but got reply, that they cant change it because "it is not possible to book this flight and calculate its price since there are no available tariffs" and capture of this:
..AYAYDOHMUC26APR17
*** AY ***
** FINNAIR - AN ** 76 WE 26APR 00
NO AVAILABILITY FOR SELECTED PREFERENCE
I asked why it shows DOHMUC and not DOHHEL (I have MUC flight after HEL) and got reply:
"originally the cost of taxes for all flights was calculated as single unit with one transaction under S7 code, in case we take AY code we need to calculate each flight separately - it is not correct from technical point of view. There are seats available on these flight - we checked this point, but ticket reissue this way is not possible. Hope for your understanding."
To be honest I don`t understand.
Any ideas how to change that QR code to AY? I contacted to AY but they said to contact S7.
My route is: MPM-(QR)-DOH-(QR)-HEL-(AY)-MUC-(S7)-DME-(S7)-NRT-(JL)-JFK-(QR)-xDOH-(QR)-CPT
Plan is to re-route this after HEL. I just booked this quickly before the price went up.
Thank you!
My ex-MPM journey start in next month and very useful info.
When i bought my ticket there wasn`t AY code share to DOH-HEL leg (QR301) but now they have that (AY6004). I tried to change my ticket to that AY6004 but got reply, that they cant change it because "it is not possible to book this flight and calculate its price since there are no available tariffs" and capture of this:
..AYAYDOHMUC26APR17
*** AY ***
** FINNAIR - AN ** 76 WE 26APR 00
NO AVAILABILITY FOR SELECTED PREFERENCE
I asked why it shows DOHMUC and not DOHHEL (I have MUC flight after HEL) and got reply:
"originally the cost of taxes for all flights was calculated as single unit with one transaction under S7 code, in case we take AY code we need to calculate each flight separately - it is not correct from technical point of view. There are seats available on these flight - we checked this point, but ticket reissue this way is not possible. Hope for your understanding."
To be honest I don`t understand.
Any ideas how to change that QR code to AY? I contacted to AY but they said to contact S7.
My route is: MPM-(QR)-DOH-(QR)-HEL-(AY)-MUC-(S7)-DME-(S7)-NRT-(JL)-JFK-(QR)-xDOH-(QR)-CPT
Plan is to re-route this after HEL. I just booked this quickly before the price went up.
Thank you!
They said that they can`t find it with my booking reference because it has letters and numbers so it is Amadeus and they use Sabre.. And I don`t have any AA flights on it so they can`t find it with flight number also so there wasnt anything they could do. So no luck there either.
This is getting really hard to change. Any Ideas?