bensyd

Sorry, but there's not a chance I'm going to be accept Kiwis turning up on the Gold Coast and I'm not allowed to travel there. That's a complete non-starter.

It might be Plan B in NZ, but it's not a plan in Australia. Australia opens its internal borders before tourists can enter the country.

NZbutterfly

They'll need to fly direct or quarantine at arrival city then fly on. Much like they do already when you land in Sydney but live in Adelaide.

If they’re flying through to NZ then NZ should contribute to Australia’s cost of quarantining and vice versa. There’s flow both directions currently.

I don’t think they’ll risk same plane with a few rows separating people. Not sure there’s enough traffic to put on separate flights for transit pax either.

I can’t see any other options.

NZbutterfly

It’s obvious internal borders have opening dates already. But why hold back travel between NZ and Australia because of one city?
I’m talking about after QLD,TAS,NT borders are open.

Just as SA & QLD have excluded VIC currently, NZ can do the same. VICs active cases haven’t stopped the proposed opening of borders between other states.

bensyd

I'll believe SA/Qld open their borders when I see it.

The internal border closures are disgraceful enough. Don't get me started about how Qld has gamed the system to ensure they have to do the minimum amount of quarantine and can let NSW and Victoria do the heavy lifting. (there's an election in Qld this year.)

If they want open international borders they can open their internal borders. How it's even constitutional to have closed borders at this point I have no idea. Thankfully, the federal government is standing firm on no overseas tourists until all the borders are open.

Australia is a country, it may be a federation, but it's a country. No way should we be accepting foreign tourists into any part of Australia while provincial politicians refuse to allow near on half the population permission to enter their state.

NZbutterfly

You’re aware SA border is open already? Except NSW ACT being reviewed for proposed July 20 opening. VIC a definite no go.

QLD July 10 except VIC. Can’t see any reason for this to change in next 5 days.

NT opens July 17... yet to hear about any VIC exclusions.

TAS July 24? with murmurings of excluding VIC.

The constitution argument is what McGowan is using for not opening up WA. I fully expect that to be challenged successfully if they don’t open especially with other states/territories opening. There was a good article by the ABC on this.

Jobkeeper due to finish in Sept. Possibly some extensions but... industries most affected like tourism, arts, aviation would benefit from increased numbers of travelers. Give those people their jobs back. They won’t go back to pre-COVID levels but save the people you can.

Also it’s costing taxpayer money in both countries to place low risk Aussies and kiwis in hotel isolation. Give that money to people without jobs that need it.

bensyd

Oh come on. The SA border is open? The majority of Australians are not allowed to enter.


Australia runs a huge tourism spend deficit. With the borders closed it's pretty likely the industry will be basically self-sustaining. Tourism is a pretty small part of the economy something like 3%.

Look, I understand NZ is much more tourism dependent and wants the TT bubble more than Australia. I don't have an issue with opening the border to NZ, but not before this internal stuff is sorted out.

NZbutterfly

It’s a border. SA doesn’t dictate where people live. Besides it was control of COVID that dictated SAs decision. Probably wary of the open border NSW has with VIC. I’d expect an announcement on NSW/ACT prior to July 20.

True NZ economy bit more reliant on tourism, but when it comes to actual job numbers, Australia has more people employed in tourism than NZ. I understand domestic tourism will help.

I never advocated for opening up to NZ before internal borders open, however if Melbourne remains a hotspot or for example another hotspot arises in NSW, it would be good if NZ could open to select states and vice versa. July is going to be an interesting month. Fingers crossed for Mel.

bensyd

It sounds an awful lot like you are advocating certain states being allowed to take arrivals from NZ before they accept domestic arrivals from Victoria and NSW.

That National Cabinet (ie the grouping formed to deal with this that comprises the PM and the state and territory premiers and chief ministers) has never advocated an elimination strategy it was always suppression. Hotspots we were warned were going to be part of the process of reopening. Given the economy is largely reopened and there remains low levels of community transmission in the east coast states, I don't really see how we can have TT bubble while NZ wants to keep the virus out. At some point someone will bring it in.

NZbutterfly

If NZ accepts people from QLD and vice versa I don’t see a problem.

If NZ has to wait for Victorians to be able to go to QLD before they can go then yes I view that as a problem. That’s what I mean by letting one city hold up the entire country. I don’t believe it is though.

I see NSW just shut it’s border to VIC. I’m thinking SA will now allow NSW & ACT to travel into SA July 20 although there’s a call from the AMA to stop easing restrictions all over Oz. But that would have a negative impact on individual state economies.

I don’t actually think the different goals elimination vs suppression make a difference with respect to NZ/Oz. Majority of Oz states pretty much have eliminated it or on track for elimination. NT even announced eradication! Although they lost that status recently. None of the other states want to go backwards. And the reality is that as a country you’re so close to elimination. You did better than what you were aiming for. Suppression is worse economically. Opening and shutting businesses/schools etc constantly under a suppression strategy? No thanks!

The other option for travel is testing and I’m pretty sure both countries will accept each other’s tests prior to travel. It’s also the alternative option for the rest of Oz dealing with Victoria. But ideally they’ll get it under control.

bensyd

A problem for whom? I don't know what sort of news coverage this is getting in NZ, but it's really not something that's being discussed that widely in the Australian media. I could be wrong, but I don't think I've seen any of the local travel industry associations campaigning about the TT bubble. They have been hammering the Qld premier over the border closures with NSW and Victoria. In any event the federal government has said that they will not open the international border until there are no internal border closures.

The majority of the population lives in Victoria, NSW and the ACT (15m/25m). It doesn't really matter if the majority of states have reached elimination if 60% of the population doesn't live there. It's highly unlikely that NSW/Vic will get to elimination until there is a vaccine. A flare up in NSW is absolutely a possibility, hopefully it will be better handled than Victoria. If NZ does not want to import cases from Australia then it cannot have a travel arrangement. I don't see any other option.


Testing is pretty flawed without some form of quarantine given the incubation periods.

Mwenenzi

From news.com.au (NZ Herald) ---> The touted trans-Tasman travel bubble with New Zealand is in doubt due to Victoria’s case surge
To me state by state would be OK. [even if my AU state is excluded at this time]
NZ needs the AU tourist $$ in the southern ski fields more than AU needs NZ tourist $$ in the QLD beaches. And a lot who will visit family in the other country. Travel to Fiji and the like is a nett cash outflow which both AU & NZ governments do not want (no local employment or tax-GST)

But you could become infected any time after the test. Including at the airport and on the aircraft where you may be exposed to a group of people you had not been mixing with before. That may include some travelling from UK-EU-USA

JamesBigglesworth

Except that there's not just the question of out going tourism. NZ *needs* migrant workers from Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, etc as spring and summer approaches. It has a *very* strong incentive to open up the borders to the Cooks and the other Pacifics, incl Fiji. From what I'm seeing a Pacific bubble is very likely by Sept/Oct. Japan is very likely next on the list.

The government might be making noises about Australia, but the current internal policy and position papers that I've seen circulating regard it as non-viable absent a vaccine due to their internal politics. None of those are, obviously, actual govt policy yet. Nor are they likely to see the light of day until after the election.

bensyd

Whose internal politics, Australia's?

JamesBigglesworth

yes, australias

NZbutterfly

Problem is probably the wrong word but as per Josh Frydenberg border closures cost jobs. I understand Aussie needs to open up their individual state economies first and that's still occurring. Obviously it's up to Australia but opening to NZ state by state is an option according to a NZ media release. The Australian PM has also said it's possible. It's a dynamic environment right now and decisions can always change.

NSW is actually doing really well considering the high numbers they started with. Seem to be the occasional locally acquired case pop up. They're obviously at a level that NT, QLD & SA find encouraging. Whilst NSW VIC have majority of the population, if they want to travel domestically to other states they need to have good control at home. The other states don't want to go backwards, neither does NZ. It would be unreasonable to say to NZ, well you have to accept Melburnians in order to have access to QLD. Oz won't force that on NZ, they're not even forcing it on themselves. NSW may have a blip in cases but they've done really well so I think they'll jump on it if that occurs. I note 2/3 new cases in Albury-Wodonga.

If you rely on a single test yes that's flawed and shown to be problematic overseas already. You'd need to start testing well prior to departure. Of course you need the health declaration too. Best to do too many tests initially, shorten the quarantine period, and later fine tune the process where you may be able to ditch the quarantine period altogether. Maybe a short 1-2 night stay for testing and results.

I repositioned to Australia during that topsy turvy week when borders were shutting and I have no regrets. But if I were back in NZ, we'd do our usual amount of travel but definitely wouldn't be spending more money in NZ that we may otherwise have spent on an island or QLD getaway. It's just cold!

As above, I wouldn't rely on a single test. When the Tasman bubble does finally go ahead I don't expect to be mixing with long haul passengers as is currently the case. Alternative arrangements will be made.