Northwest Airlines Announces New Nonstop Service between Seattle and Beijing
May 8, 2008, 4:12 pm
#121
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,275
I almost feel like Al-Qaeda hit us except don't feel numb
Everyone was saying Osaka. A few said places like Seoul, Sydney, somewhere in Europe. Several said....except not the People's Republic of China.
Then...wham.....PEK.
Smack us on the head, just like al-Qaeda likes to do. Since it's a new flight and not an attack, it's not numbing but it's an eyeopener.
Think outside of the box next time.
Then...wham.....PEK.
Smack us on the head, just like al-Qaeda likes to do. Since it's a new flight and not an attack, it's not numbing but it's an eyeopener.
Think outside of the box next time.
May 8, 2008, 4:14 pm
#122
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Join Date: May 2001
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Posts: 31,789
and I was wrong (sort of).
May 8, 2008, 4:15 pm
#123
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA, USA NW Platinum Elite Since 1999, United GoldMM, Hyatt Plat, SPG Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz #1 Gold, IC Ambassador, Avis Chairman's
Posts: 7,445
Once again NW isn't thinking PAST Beijing or SEA
The problem I see is once again NW isn't thinking PAST Beijing or SEA...
Daily Service Seattle to Beijing
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Beijing 4:55 p.m. 8:35 p.m. +1
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Seattle 10:55 p.m. 6:35 p.m.
The arrival times are similar to the current arrival times out of NRT. Basically few if any onward connections are possible out of Beijing, so one has to overnight. UA flights arrive in the afternoon, so on-ward connections are possible. Also, coming back it's the same problem, one has another overnight red-eye to anyplace other than the west coast. Add to that, no showers in the SEA WC...
Daily Service Seattle to Beijing
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Beijing 4:55 p.m. 8:35 p.m. +1
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Seattle 10:55 p.m. 6:35 p.m.
The arrival times are similar to the current arrival times out of NRT. Basically few if any onward connections are possible out of Beijing, so one has to overnight. UA flights arrive in the afternoon, so on-ward connections are possible. Also, coming back it's the same problem, one has another overnight red-eye to anyplace other than the west coast. Add to that, no showers in the SEA WC...
May 8, 2008, 4:20 pm
#124
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Land "O" Lakes
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Posts: 330
I still think HU's pitch should be better - HU has 25 fewer coach seats and 4 more biz seats. A332 has 8 seats across in Y, so it doesn't need 3 rows of coach space to make up 4 seats in C.
Last edited by PVGMSP; May 8, 2008 at 4:23 pm Reason: Clarification
May 8, 2008, 4:21 pm
#125
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May 8, 2008, 4:22 pm
#126
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA, USA NW Platinum Elite Since 1999, United GoldMM, Hyatt Plat, SPG Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz #1 Gold, IC Ambassador, Avis Chairman's
Posts: 7,445
see Post #11 
Everyone was saying Osaka. A few said places like Seoul, Sydney, somewhere in Europe. Several said....except not the People's Republic of China.
Then...wham.....PEK.
Smack us on the head, just like al-Qaeda likes to do. Since it's a new flight and not an attack, it's not numbing but it's an eyeopener.
Think outside of the box next time.
Then...wham.....PEK.
Smack us on the head, just like al-Qaeda likes to do. Since it's a new flight and not an attack, it's not numbing but it's an eyeopener.
Think outside of the box next time.
May 8, 2008, 4:34 pm
#127
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MSP - Lake of the Isles
Programs: NW Plat
Posts: 124
I still think that USA-SYD nonstop would be the most profitable route for SkyTeam. We are tired of paying $8k-$10k a seat to UA and ICN connections are a little too far off the beaten path. I just don't get NW's, DL's and CO's reasoning behind ignoring this route. Why not do a codeshare on it?
May 8, 2008, 4:37 pm
#128
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Land "O" Lakes
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 330
The problem I see is once again NW isn't thinking PAST Beijing or SEA...
Daily Service Seattle to Beijing
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Beijing 4:55 p.m. 8:35 p.m. +1
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Seattle 10:55 p.m. 6:35 p.m.
The arrival times are similar to the current arrival times out of NRT. Basically few if any onward connections are possible out of Beijing, so one has to overnight. UA flights arrive in the afternoon, so on-ward connections are possible. Also, coming back it's the same problem, one has another overnight red-eye to anyplace other than the west coast. Add to that, no showers in the SEA WC...
Daily Service Seattle to Beijing
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Beijing 4:55 p.m. 8:35 p.m. +1
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Seattle 10:55 p.m. 6:35 p.m.
The arrival times are similar to the current arrival times out of NRT. Basically few if any onward connections are possible out of Beijing, so one has to overnight. UA flights arrive in the afternoon, so on-ward connections are possible. Also, coming back it's the same problem, one has another overnight red-eye to anyplace other than the west coast. Add to that, no showers in the SEA WC...
.Also I don't quite understand the cancellation of NRT-CAN. When I flew NRT-CAN in 05/06, each time it was packed... in Y, though WBC was not full (757's WBC is a joke
)Or maybe NW is planning to code shore with ST member China Southern (CZ) on NRT-CAN. In 2009, CZ is starting PEK-DTW (Supposedly with 787
), which got to have NW's feeds/Code share in DTW for CZ to make money...
May 8, 2008, 4:45 pm
#129
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: CT
Programs: UA1K
Posts: 351
The problem I see is once again NW isn't thinking PAST Beijing or SEA...
Daily Service Seattle to Beijing
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Beijing 4:55 p.m. 8:35 p.m. +1
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Seattle 10:55 p.m. 6:35 p.m.
The arrival times are similar to the current arrival times out of NRT. Basically few if any onward connections are possible out of Beijing, so one has to overnight. UA flights arrive in the afternoon, so on-ward connections are possible. Also, coming back it's the same problem, one has another overnight red-eye to anyplace other than the west coast. Add to that, no showers in the SEA WC...
Daily Service Seattle to Beijing
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Beijing 4:55 p.m. 8:35 p.m. +1
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Seattle 10:55 p.m. 6:35 p.m.
The arrival times are similar to the current arrival times out of NRT. Basically few if any onward connections are possible out of Beijing, so one has to overnight. UA flights arrive in the afternoon, so on-ward connections are possible. Also, coming back it's the same problem, one has another overnight red-eye to anyplace other than the west coast. Add to that, no showers in the SEA WC...
For flight back, I do not think there is much NW can do, for any connection beyond SEA to Mid- or Eastern US would require a morning arrival, which requires the aircraft to remain in PEK overnight.
May 8, 2008, 4:48 pm
#130
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: CT
Programs: UA1K
Posts: 351
they only have 28 weekly passenger rights to mainland China, and their press says NRT/PEK, NRT/PVG, DTW/PVG and SEA/PEK will stay, which renders NRT/CAN an impossibility.
May 8, 2008, 5:07 pm
#131
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Silver
Posts: 1,155
I can't agree more.
Both SEA-PEK and DTW-PVG have the worst possible schedule.
Hainan's SEA-PEK schedule is way way better.
Both SEA-PEK and DTW-PVG have the worst possible schedule.
Hainan's SEA-PEK schedule is way way better.
The problem I see is once again NW isn't thinking PAST Beijing or SEA...
Daily Service Seattle to Beijing
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Beijing 4:55 p.m. 8:35 p.m. +1
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Seattle 10:55 p.m. 6:35 p.m.
The arrival times are similar to the current arrival times out of NRT. Basically few if any onward connections are possible out of Beijing, so one has to overnight. UA flights arrive in the afternoon, so on-ward connections are possible. Also, coming back it's the same problem, one has another overnight red-eye to anyplace other than the west coast. Add to that, no showers in the SEA WC...
Daily Service Seattle to Beijing
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Beijing 4:55 p.m. 8:35 p.m. +1
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Seattle 10:55 p.m. 6:35 p.m.
The arrival times are similar to the current arrival times out of NRT. Basically few if any onward connections are possible out of Beijing, so one has to overnight. UA flights arrive in the afternoon, so on-ward connections are possible. Also, coming back it's the same problem, one has another overnight red-eye to anyplace other than the west coast. Add to that, no showers in the SEA WC...
May 8, 2008, 5:28 pm
#132
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: DL; AA; UA; CO; LHLX; NZ; QR; EK; BA
Posts: 7,409
The problem I see is once again NW isn't thinking PAST Beijing or SEA...
Daily Service Seattle to Beijing
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Beijing 4:55 p.m. 8:35 p.m. +1
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Seattle 10:55 p.m. 6:35 p.m.
The arrival times are similar to the current arrival times out of NRT. Basically few if any onward connections are possible out of Beijing, so one has to overnight. UA flights arrive in the afternoon, so on-ward connections are possible. Also, coming back it's the same problem, one has another overnight red-eye to anyplace other than the west coast. Add to that, no showers in the SEA WC...
Daily Service Seattle to Beijing
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Beijing 4:55 p.m. 8:35 p.m. +1
Destination: Departs: Arrives:
Seattle 10:55 p.m. 6:35 p.m.
The arrival times are similar to the current arrival times out of NRT. Basically few if any onward connections are possible out of Beijing, so one has to overnight. UA flights arrive in the afternoon, so on-ward connections are possible. Also, coming back it's the same problem, one has another overnight red-eye to anyplace other than the west coast. Add to that, no showers in the SEA WC...
Last edited by ClipperDelta; May 8, 2008 at 5:50 pm
May 8, 2008, 6:50 pm
#133
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,309
you have to understand..
this isnt Skyteam we're talking about... at the end of the day it's Northwest (and eventually Delta/Northwest) that airlines have to make the decision for, NOT the Alliance. the Alliance is PURELY a marketing relationship - in very rare circumstances only is there a revenue share model in place. At the end of the day, airlines will put metal where it's best for THEM, and if it benefits their alliance, great. if not, oh well.
I still think that USA-SYD nonstop would be the most profitable route for SkyTeam. We are tired of paying $8k-$10k a seat to UA and ICN connections are a little too far off the beaten path. I just don't get NW's, DL's and CO's reasoning behind ignoring this route. Why not do a codeshare on it?
May 8, 2008, 7:19 pm
#134
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Land "O" Lakes
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 330
A few more comments:
1. The timing of launching SEA-PEK is kind of interesting ...... 6 months AFTER the Olympics.
And on top of HU's same route. - Maybe NW saw some stats that says that tourism in Australia/Greece increased quite a bit POST-Olympics. Otherwise, one would wonder why NW didn’t start SEA-PEK earlier this year or even right after they lost to UA for the additional China authority in 2006 (UA started IAD-PEK since), since they could’ve switched NRT-CAN to SEA-PEK anytime they want. This brings in my second point -
2. Currently China’s export-focused manufacturing is under tremendous pressure – fast-rising labor, utility, commodity and other costs, appreciating Chinese Yuan, coupled with the recession/slower economy in US/Europe. The Pearl River Delta region (basically the triangle of Guangzhou (CAN), Hong Kong and Macao), traditionally the strongest manufacturing base in China for exports, is experiencing the worst of this slowdown. It has been reported quite a few factories in the PRD were abruptly shut down by the owners, who just skipped town (or more likely, the country), owing back pays to their workers. In this kind of environment, NW must’ve seen a sharp deterioration of yield to CAN, which might not be that good to begin with, since CAN needs to complete with many many flights to HKG, although NW has itself to blame too - for using 757 on the 5+ hr ride of NRT-CAN. Who wants to pay C fares to sit in a domestic FC seat with a few more inches of pitch?
3. Further evidence that CAN is not doing well, yield-wise. UA was going to start SFO-CAN n/s earlier this year, but they requested to DOT for postponing it till 2009.
4. Still I always liked flying to CAN, instead of HKG, where you need to clear customs/border control twice (Hong Kong + China) if you have business in PRD. Besides, NW’s NRT-HKG arrives after 10 pm, making overnight in HK almost mandatory.
Sorry, kind of off the topic. -Just sad to see the only US carrier service to CAN is going away.....
1. The timing of launching SEA-PEK is kind of interesting ...... 6 months AFTER the Olympics.
And on top of HU's same route. - Maybe NW saw some stats that says that tourism in Australia/Greece increased quite a bit POST-Olympics. Otherwise, one would wonder why NW didn’t start SEA-PEK earlier this year or even right after they lost to UA for the additional China authority in 2006 (UA started IAD-PEK since), since they could’ve switched NRT-CAN to SEA-PEK anytime they want. This brings in my second point - 2. Currently China’s export-focused manufacturing is under tremendous pressure – fast-rising labor, utility, commodity and other costs, appreciating Chinese Yuan, coupled with the recession/slower economy in US/Europe. The Pearl River Delta region (basically the triangle of Guangzhou (CAN), Hong Kong and Macao), traditionally the strongest manufacturing base in China for exports, is experiencing the worst of this slowdown. It has been reported quite a few factories in the PRD were abruptly shut down by the owners, who just skipped town (or more likely, the country), owing back pays to their workers. In this kind of environment, NW must’ve seen a sharp deterioration of yield to CAN, which might not be that good to begin with, since CAN needs to complete with many many flights to HKG, although NW has itself to blame too - for using 757 on the 5+ hr ride of NRT-CAN. Who wants to pay C fares to sit in a domestic FC seat with a few more inches of pitch?
3. Further evidence that CAN is not doing well, yield-wise. UA was going to start SFO-CAN n/s earlier this year, but they requested to DOT for postponing it till 2009.
4. Still I always liked flying to CAN, instead of HKG, where you need to clear customs/border control twice (Hong Kong + China) if you have business in PRD. Besides, NW’s NRT-HKG arrives after 10 pm, making overnight in HK almost mandatory.
Sorry, kind of off the topic. -Just sad to see the only US carrier service to CAN is going away.....
Last edited by PVGMSP; May 8, 2008 at 8:21 pm Reason: Clarification
May 8, 2008, 8:08 pm
#135
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