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Old Sep 17, 2017, 1:21 pm
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[PREM FARE GONE]Nz: Syd-lax z $944

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Old Sep 20, 2017, 4:56 pm
  #286  
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Originally Posted by joetraveler99
So what's the difference between this 'mistake fare', and any other one, such as the SAI/HAN-US Qatar fare, which was honored? Is it the generosity/frugality or the airline, or is there something more enforceable about the ones that are honored?
Up to the individual airline how it wants to handle it. An airline may honour it either for PR purposes, or - perhaps, because it thinks there may be legal grounds (the QR fare was advertised as a golden ticket if that's the one you're referring to).

In the absence of a passenger taking their own legal action against NZ in this case, there's nothing really to compel them to honour the fare (provided they satisfy the DOT requirements).
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 5:34 pm
  #287  
 
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My QR fare said 'Golden Ticket'. My ANZ fare said 'SPECIAL FARE'. Even though we all know that they were both likely a result of some goof on the part of the airline, they both seemed to indicate some sort of a special deal. QR honored theirs and ANZ did not. Go figger.....
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 5:39 pm
  #288  
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Originally Posted by joetraveler99
My QR fare said 'Golden Ticket'. My ANZ fare said 'SPECIAL FARE'. Even though we all know that they were both likely a result of some goof on the part of the airline, they both seemed to indicate some sort of a special deal. QR honored theirs and ANZ did not. Go figger.....
In the absence of a potential legal ground, there is noting to compel airlines to honour these fares. And there's a big difference here... QR has sales all the time. They need passengers to book with confidence, and if they continually backed out of fares it would have a material effect on their bottom line (no one would book as it was too uncertain).

Air New Zealand doesn't need 100? (1000?) tickets at $1000 each. It can fill its cabins at higher fares and doesn't need the PR or anything else.

You can still take NZ to court if you want.
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 5:45 pm
  #289  
 
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
Air New Zealand doesn't need 100? (1000?) tickets at $1000 each. It can fill its cabins at higher fares and doesn't need the PR or anything else.
+1. That is the reality of the situation.
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 5:46 pm
  #290  
 
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
In the absence of a potential legal ground, there is noting to compel airlines to honour these fares. And there's a big difference here... QR has sales all the time. They need passengers to book with confidence, and if they continually backed out of fares it would have a material effect on their bottom line (no one would book as it was too uncertain).

Air New Zealand doesn't need 100? (1000?) tickets at $1000 each. It can fill its cabins at higher fares and doesn't need the PR or anything else.

You can still take NZ to court if you want.
I wonder how one of these would work out in small claims court?
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 6:03 pm
  #291  
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Originally Posted by poohfighter
I wonder how one of these would work out in small claims court?
Maybe if you find an strong pro-consumer court. Otherwise there is some rule which can allow voiding of the contract if they prove that you knew or should have known it was a mistake. It happened to a friend, lost when an airline provided copies off all the post on flyertalk and all the blog posts with the Big Error fare do not call info.

Back in the days before the DOT rule on post purchase price increase (that they are currently not enforcing) they were honored more often than not because they didn't get such massive exposure. Its a different world now that FT has gone mainstream and the massive coverage by bloggers looking to make a buck off credit card referrals.
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 6:12 pm
  #292  
 
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Originally Posted by CDKing
Maybe if you find an strong pro-consumer court. Otherwise there is some rule which can allow voiding of the contract if they prove that you knew or should have known it was a mistake. It happened to a friend, lost when an airline provided copies off all the post on flyertalk and all the blog posts with the Big Error fare do not call info.

Back in the days before the DOT rule on post purchase price increase (that they are currently not enforcing) they were honored more often than not because they didn't get such massive exposure. Its a different world now that FT has gone mainstream and the massive coverage by bloggers looking to make a buck off credit card referrals.
That's a big expense for the airline to actually appear in court. Especially an international one like NZ. Don't suppose they'd just settle for convenience?
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 6:19 pm
  #293  
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Originally Posted by poohfighter
That's a big expense for the airline to actually appear in court. Especially an international one like NZ. Don't suppose they'd just settle for convenience?
Small claims. No. And they'd likely have an in-house team anyway (absorbed cost). And if it's an expense for them, it could be a big expense for the passenger too

The bottom line is we don't know how many fares NZ sold at this price. But a couple hours for a lawyer to go to small claims is probably less than honouring $4000+ fares for multiple pax.
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 6:37 pm
  #294  
 
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I suppose ANA could've refused to honor their YVR-SYD fare, as they have no PR problem and could likely have filled the those seats with full fare customers. Might have more to do with corporate philosophy.
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 7:09 pm
  #295  
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Originally Posted by poohfighter
That's a big expense for the airline to actually appear in court. Especially an international one like NZ. Don't suppose they'd just settle for convenience?
Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
Small claims. No. And they'd likely have an in-house team anyway (absorbed cost). And if it's an expense for them, it could be a big expense for the passenger too

The bottom line is we don't know how many fares NZ sold at this price. But a couple hours for a lawyer to go to small claims is probably less than honouring $4000+ fares for multiple pax.
International carriers that service the US have people in the US that can appear on their behalf.

BTW i guess its time to remember the stages of a mistake fare

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24333242-post1362.html

We jumped to #7b pretty quick:

7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.

Last edited by CDKing; Sep 20, 2017 at 7:28 pm
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 8:06 pm
  #296  
 
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I was on phone with Expedia AU to inquire about my ticket. The agent was friendly and was not sure why ticket was canceled. She said she's working with her ticketing team to get it reinstated. She said it might take weeks, but my travel isn't for another 5 months, so I have time.

She also offered me a quick refund, which I refused.

Didn't get a sense that she or anyone I spoke to were aware of the "mistake". But maybe word hasn't gotten to the front lines yet.
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 9:07 pm
  #297  
 
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Originally Posted by hirohito888
I was on phone with Expedia AU to inquire about my ticket. The agent was friendly and was not sure why ticket was canceled. She said she's working with her ticketing team to get it reinstated. She said it might take weeks, but my travel isn't for another 5 months, so I have time.

She also offered me a quick refund, which I refused.

Didn't get a sense that she or anyone I spoke to were aware of the "mistake". But maybe word hasn't gotten to the front lines yet.
I spoke to expedia.au yesterday also and refused the refund. The agent opened a case ID. I am going to wait for an official response from expedia before taking any next step. The refund has not appeared on my credit card. As for the conditions of carriage, it appears from the link that there is nothing in the terms allowing the airline to cancel the ticket.

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/asse...nuary-2013.pdf
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 9:17 pm
  #298  
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Originally Posted by brooding
I spoke to expedia.au yesterday also and refused the refund. The agent opened a case ID. I am going to wait for an official response from expedia before taking any next step. The refund has not appeared on my credit card. As for the conditions of carriage, it appears from the link that there is nothing in the terms allowing the airline to cancel the ticket.

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/asse...nuary-2013.pdf
The conditions of carriage are irrelevant. If the fare is not valid, the ticket is not valid. If the ticket is not valid you don't have a contract or conditions of carriage.

The refund hasn't appeared on your credit card because you refused it and they opened a case for you. Refunds take time anyways.
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 9:19 pm
  #299  
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Originally Posted by poohfighter
I wonder how one of these would work out in small claims court?
Originally Posted by CDKing
Maybe if you find an strong pro-consumer court. Otherwise there is some rule which can allow voiding of the contract if they prove that you knew or should have known it was a mistake. It happened to a friend, lost when an airline provided copies off all the post on flyertalk and all the blog posts with the Big Error fare do not call info.
I have previously sued one of the world's 10 largest airlines for cancelling what it said was a mistake airfare (one widely publicised on FlyerTalk), in Australia. In 150-odd pages of documents the airline provided in discovery (I forget the correct title in a civil matter) the airline included print outs from FlyerTalk and some of the incompetent aforementioned blogs.

I won.

Originally Posted by poohfighter
That's a big expense for the airline to actually appear in court. Especially an international one like NZ. Don't suppose they'd just settle for convenience?
Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
Small claims. No. And they'd likely have an in-house team anyway (absorbed cost). And if it's an expense for them, it could be a big expense for the passenger too
In my case, the airline was represented by one of the five largest law firms in world. At a conservative estimate, it cost the airline at least AUD25k in legal fees. The airline sought leave to be represented by a lawyer in court; I opposed and the motion was denied. It cost me a hell of a lot of time but other than that, only court filing fees which were awarded to me as part of the judgment.

Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
The conditions of carriage are irrelevant. If the fare is not valid, the ticket is not valid. If the ticket is not valid you don't have a contract or conditions of carriage.
In my case I referred the court to the conditions of carriage. It didn't hurt my case.
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Last edited by danger; Sep 20, 2017 at 9:30 pm
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 9:23 pm
  #300  
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Originally Posted by danger
I have previously sued one of the world's 10 largest airlines for cancelling what it said was a mistake airfare (one widely publicised on FlyerTalk), in Australia. In 150-odd pages of documents the airline provided in discovery (I forget the correct time in a civil matter) the airline included print outs from FlyerTalk and some of the incompetent aforementioned blogs.

I won.
Can you provide the case details so we can have a read?
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