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I purchased SPG points over past few months because I realised that my existing cat-15 certs were not sufficient for my needs as the ongoing devaluation meant that cat1-5 certs are effectively worthless. I upgraded 3 cat1-5 packages to cat 1-6 packages, with explicitly purchased points (i.e. with a very clear dollar value cost to me).
This direct points.com/SPG spend was now 100% wasted. I feel like I have had that money fraudulently taken from me. it is NOT correct to say no-one loses. I spent money to upgrade something which has now been downgraded directly and precisely back where I started before I spent the money. This is a loss, and no amount of marketing speak can make this statement not true. |
Originally Posted by farnorthtrader
(Post 30102618)
It also doesn't add up that a 30K/night certificate on Friday became a 25K/night certificate on Saturday. And the people selling the certificate knew when they were selling it that they were going to renege on what they were selling.
Edit: not mentioning the imminent loss of the flexibility to upgrade and downgrade certificates is also significant. I don't think anything about that was officially sent out to all members ahead of time or disclosed to any purchasers. |
I may exercise the cancellation to get points back if that's an option come 9/18. I'm still pretty angry at the lack of communication, and not formally publishing these changes given they knew how they wanted to handle the certs. Additionally, a forum representative isn't exactly the best way to release this kind of information. Everyone is pointing to a FT FORUM post as the official announcement. What about people who don't spend their time on here or read travel blogs? Even then, Starwood Lurker is usually on point, but they have given out wrong information on a few occasions already...not confidence inspiring given the resources available to a company like Marriott
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Originally Posted by OssianBlue
(Post 30102896)
I'm not sure what his deal is, but he's been a consistent source of bad information and confusion for a long time on this long thread.
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Originally Posted by chongl
(Post 30102905)
I may exercise the cancellation to get points back if that's an option come 9/18. I'm still pretty angry at the lack of communication, and not formally publishing these changes given they knew how they wanted to handle the certs. Additionally, a forum representative isn't exactly the best way to release this kind of information. Everyone is pointing to a FT FORUM post as the official announcement. What about people who don't spend their time on here or read travel blogs? Even then, Starwood Lurker is usually on point, but they have given out wrong information on a few occasions already...not confidence inspiring given the resources available to a company like Marriott
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Originally Posted by OssianBlue
(Post 30102896)
I'm not sure what his deal is, but he's been a consistent source of bad information and confusion for a long time on this long thread.
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Originally Posted by HHonors OUTSIDER
(Post 30102942)
Yes as of right now disappointing but the certs are locked for a month and in the end I am confident Marriott will do what is completely fair for the owners of the old TP certs.
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Originally Posted by rny321
(Post 30102996)
What's that word that goes into the saying ".... is bliss?"
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Originally Posted by Flying for Fun
(Post 30102581)
A month ago cancellation of unattached certificates was a real possibility.
It never added up that an old 30K per night certificate should have converted to a 35K per night new certificate. Everyone should be happy they still have a certificate with value! Much better than 45K residual "worth" in your account and a cancelled certificate. James |
So, if this is actually true we may actually see some legal activity on the TPs:
https://www.facebook.com/Marriottrewardfraud/ |
Here are 2 things I don't understand:
1. Why was Marriott willing to give Cat. 9 holders 10-15k per night of value in excess of their old certificate, but were unwilling to give Cat 6 and 8 holders only 5-10k of potential extra value? 2. Why didn't Marriott just let the certificates convert to a points based certificate, e.g. an old Cat 8 would be good for a 7-night stay for up to 40k per night, and allow the member to book a higher category room but be required to pay the difference in points at time of booking? This would, in effect, be exactly the same position as the member was in before, except for the ability to use on SPG properties and the inability to downgrade the certificate, which we could call a wash. That way Marriott would not have to be either stingy or generous and it would be completely fair to all involved. Seems like that would have been better for Marriott both from a PR angle and to prevent the loss they'll take on Cat.9 appreciation. |
Originally Posted by Julie17
(Post 30103290)
Here are 2 things I don't understand:
1. Why was Marriott willing to give Cat. 9 holders 10-15k per night of value in excess of their old certificate, but were unwilling to give Cat 6 and 8 holders only 5-10k of potential extra value? 2. Why didn't Marriott just let the certificates convert to a points based certificate, e.g. an old Cat 8 would be good for a 7-night stay for up to 40k per night, and allow the member to book a higher category room but be required to pay the difference in points at time of booking? This would, in effect, be exactly the same position as the member was in before, except for the ability to use on SPG properties and the inability to downgrade the certificate, which we could call a wash. That way Marriott would not have to be either stingy or generous and it would be completely fair to all involved. Seems like that would have been better for Marriott both from a PR angle and to prevent the loss they'll take on Cat.9 appreciation. 1. They probably wanted to map Cat. 9s to their easier match of new Cat. 6s however they would have lost the ability to argue that no existing TP was harmed because it was at least the value of the new peak (going from a 45K value to peak 40K). 2. They didn't want to deal with legacy certificates and wanted a clean sweep into the new program. This approach probably just requires a single variable with the original TP category for legacy certificates that are detached from reservations. |
Originally Posted by Flying for Fun
(Post 30102581)
Where in the old MR program did it say you could attach your certificate to a former SPG property after migration? You bought a pre-merger TP. A month ago cancellation of unattached certificates was a real possibility. The debate then was "worth" & "value" of the certificate. Clearly, the Cat 1-5 certificate was not "worth" it's 150K "value." in the old or new MR.
Recently everyone was advised that they would be able to apply their unattached certificates post merger and that the new chart would prevail. By not attaching to a Marriott property, which would have afforded maximum value, and maybe better flexibily, you are still getting better value than the 45K residual "worth" you would have gotten if it had been cancelled. I purchased a Category 8 TP and attached it to Category 8 property which is now a Category 5. Would I have preferred to book at former SPG property? Yes, I would have. But it wasn't possible to at the time. I locked in a tangible $2100 USD savings for 135K Marriott Points. I wasn't going to risk that for an uncertain outcome. Having attached my certificate, I will be able to, upon request, get 30K points refunded, without a cancel/rebook, as my 40K per night reservation now only requires 35K per night. That 30K refund will provide a night in a Cat 4 with 5K MR extra or a night in a Cat 5 with an additional 5K MR. That is a nice little value added bonus. It never added up that an old 30K per night certificate should have converted to a 35K per night new certificate. Most of the value of the former TP was in the FF Miles. No complaints there that I have read. If you didn't have a real need for a hotel certificate under the old program then perhaps speculatively leaving a certificate unattached in anticipation it would offer better value post merger was not a good approach. Now 300K will give you 125K FF Miles. Anything extra with a certificate for a stay is a bonus. Everyone should be happy they still have a certificate with value! Much better than 45K residual "worth" in your account and a cancelled certificate. James |
As an aside, I wonder what the projected occupancy rates for Domes of Elounda will be? I have a feeling their projections will be off as all the speculative attaching of travel certs will now probably be cancelled. |
Originally Posted by Flying for Fun
(Post 30102581)
Where in the old MR program did it say you could attach your certificate to a former SPG property after migration? You bought a pre-merger TP. A month ago cancellation of unattached certificates was a real possibility. The debate then was "worth" & "value" of the certificate. Clearly, the Cat 1-5 certificate was not "worth" it's 150K "value." in the old or new MR.
Recently everyone was advised that they would be able to apply their unattached certificates post merger and that the new chart would prevail. By not attaching to a Marriott property, which would have afforded maximum value, and maybe better flexibily, you are still getting better value than the 45K residual "worth" you would have gotten if it had been cancelled. I purchased a Category 8 TP and attached it to Category 8 property which is now a Category 5. Would I have preferred to book at former SPG property? Yes, I would have. But it wasn't possible to at the time. I locked in a tangible $2100 USD savings for 135K Marriott Points. I wasn't going to risk that for an uncertain outcome. Having attached my certificate, I will be able to, upon request, get 30K points refunded, without a cancel/rebook, as my 40K per night reservation now only requires 35K per night. That 30K refund will provide a night in a Cat 4 with 5K MR extra or a night in a Cat 5 with an additional 5K MR. That is a nice little value added bonus. It never added up that an old 30K per night certificate should have converted to a 35K per night new certificate. Most of the value of the former TP was in the FF Miles. No complaints there that I have read. If you didn't have a real need for a hotel certificate under the old program then perhaps speculatively leaving a certificate unattached in anticipation it would offer better value post merger was not a good approach. Now 300K will give you 125K FF Miles. Anything extra with a certificate for a stay is a bonus. Everyone should be happy they still have a certificate with value! Much better than 45K residual "worth" in your account and a cancelled certificate. James "Let's keep getting people to pay 30,000 more points to go from category 1-5 to 6 and from 7 to 8 even though we know that they actually get nothing for those 30,000 points. Then, when they get upset about that, we'll tell them that they should be happy, because as badly as we treated them by knowingly taking 30,000 points from them for nothing, we could have treated them even worse." If you do work for Marriott (which I sincerely doubt), you should tell your bosses that it's not working. One other thing: you keep talking about being told to attach to maximize value. But that advice came from Starwood Lurker in a post where he said that floaters would be converted to points. 99.9% of SPG/MR members never saw that because they've never heard of FT or Starwood Lurker. And even the 0.1% who did see if later learned that the entire post turned out to be wrong -- they decided not to turn floaters into points. The only email that they tried (and failed) to send to everyone did not say that you had to attach to maximize value. IMHO, that excuse doesn't fly. And I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think a certificate with a maximum value of 30,000 would be converted to one worth 35,000 where they chose to have no 30,000 point properties in 2018. It was either 25,000 or 35,000. They choose to stick it to their customers rather than absorb the cost themselves. I think a good company does the opposite. |
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