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Sanity check please - we've bought our Cat 9 specifically for JW Marriott Hong Kong, now my TP is a Cat 6 and JW has also been downgraded to Cat 6 so we've haven't lost any value/utility?
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Originally Posted by mini2
(Post 30103981)
Sanity check please - we've bought our Cat 9 specifically for JW Marriott Hong Kong, now my TP is a Cat 6 and JW has also been downgraded to Cat 6 so we've haven't lost any value/utility?
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If Marriott wishes to use next year's peak pricing to value the converted certificate, then they need to be honest about screwing over people with tier 4-5 certs, as those certs will no longer be able to redeem for top tier properties come next year, despite costing a staggering 540k points. Basically you get 2 and a half months to attach it, or you're screwed.
Marriott completely bungled this transition for people who got cat 6, cat 8, tier 1-3 and tier 4-5, all for what? To save on a one time only expense, but draw the ire of so many Marriott/SPG/RC Elites. How is this worthwhile for them? Marriott needs to wise up and just be generous with their members, and chalk up the cost as a one time good will gesture or cost of merging programs. Start the new program on the right foot. |
Any word on extending it for another year from current expiration date?
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I know that emotions are running high right now, but I am genuinely curious how this specific Travel Package devaluation stacks against the big picture of the Marriott/SPG merger.
Obviously the TP outcome was bad for those expecting a better outcome, but on the whole, is it really that bad? I haven't been keeping up as I burned through my points last year with a TP and I have yet to decide whether Hilton would be better (benefits and redemption value wise). So, in all fairness, is this the worst thing that happened from the merger? I don't suspect the TP was of major value to most Marriott members (except for those that had a ton of points to convert in the first place or trying to find maximum ROI on their Marriott points). |
Originally Posted by luv2ctheworld
(Post 30104133)
I know that emotions are running high right now, but I am genuinely curious how this specific Travel Package devaluation stacks against the big picture of the Marriott/SPG merger.
Obviously the TP outcome was bad for those expecting a better outcome, but on the whole, is it really that bad? I haven't been keeping up as I burned through my points last year with a TP and I have yet to decide whether Hilton would be better (benefits and redemption value wise). So, in all fairness, is this the worst thing that happened from the merger? I don't suspect the TP was of major value to most Marriott members (except for those that had a ton of points to convert in the first place or trying to find maximum ROI on their Marriott points). Marriott seems to be playing out of the Delta SkyMiles playbook. |
But we can't book off peak Category 5 with a Category 1-4 certificate.
Originally Posted by crimsona
(Post 30103886)
Starting January next year you can book peak category 5, which would be 40k. At least, that's their argument
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Originally Posted by zachary
(Post 30103350)
This is just brilliant. Here's the translation of the internal Marriott meeting where they decided on the strategy:
"Let's keep getting people to pay 30,000 more points to go from category 1-5 to 6 and from 7 to 8 even though we know that they actually get nothing for those 30,000 points. Then, when they get upset about that, we'll tell them that they should be happy, because as badly as we treated them by knowingly taking 30,000 points from them for nothing, we could have treated them even worse." If you do work for Marriott (which I sincerely doubt), you should tell your bosses that it's not working. One other thing: you keep talking about being told to attach to maximize value. But that advice came from Starwood Lurker in a post where he said that floaters would be converted to points. 99.9% of SPG/MR members never saw that because they've never heard of FT or Starwood Lurker. And even the 0.1% who did see if later learned that the entire post turned out to be wrong -- they decided not to turn floaters into points. The only email that they tried (and failed) to send to everyone did not say that you had to attach to maximize value. IMHO, that excuse doesn't fly. And I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think a certificate with a maximum value of 30,000 would be converted to one worth 35,000 where they chose to have no 30,000 point properties in 2018. It was either 25,000 or 35,000. They choose to stick it to their customers rather than absorb the cost themselves. I think a good company does the opposite. My boyfriend and I booked 27 category 6 packages for our wedding. The hotel is now category 5 and our certs are worthless. I opened a Facebook page calling Marriott out. Share if you agree Marriott just defrauded their customers |
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
(Post 30103367)
Agree on #2 .
For #1 , in my opinion it was a hotel coverage numbers game. They picked a threshold of old hotels covered in new cert, and aligned accordingly. The numbers below are for the old to new hotel coverage for n-1, n and n+1 new cats where n is the converted new cat. Cat5 ->4 38% 99% 100% Cat6->4, 2% 71% 99% Cat7->5, 18% 98% 100% Cat8->5, 0% 70% 99% Cat9->6, 2% 76% 99% T3->6 0% 82% 100% T5->7 0% 21% 100% Looks like the threshold was about 70%, but it falls off a cliff at n-1 which probably drove it more than anything. I know people are upset about paying 30k more than they had to for the same result, but the real loss was the ~30% hotel coverage. Even Cat9 people lost here. This essentially is a devaluation, which is fine, but should have been announced or avoided by mapping to a higher hotel coverage. Neither happened. People are upset that their travel package can't be used on certain properties when a few days ago it could, but the issue here isn't that they got screwed in the travel package conversion, the problem is that some properties increased in price. But that is completely unrelated to travel packages... think about it this way: if instead of a travel package you were planning on booking using points, you would need more points to book those properties today than you did a few days ago. Some will argue that because they bought the travel package before the category changed then they should be able to use it at the same properties regardless of what the new categories are. But that's flawed logic and it has never worked that way: at least once a year there is a round of category updates and the only way to lock in the old price is to make a reservation before the changes take effect. It's always been that way. |
Originally Posted by mk712
(Post 30104389)
The problem is that you're mixing two different things: the old travel packages being converted into new travel packages, and hotels changing categories. While they did happen on the same day, they are still two independent and different events.
People are upset that their travel package can't be used on certain properties when a few days ago it could, but the issue here isn't that they got screwed in the travel package conversion, the problem is that some properties increased in price. But that is completely unrelated to travel packages... think about it this way: if instead of a travel package you were planning on booking using points, you would need more points to book those properties today than you did a few days ago. Some will argue that because they bought the travel package before the category changed then they should be able to use it at the same properties regardless of what the new categories are. But that's flawed logic and it has never worked that way: at least once a year there is a round of category updates and the only way to lock in the old price is to make a reservation before the changes take effect. It's always been that way. The logic of prices going up is flawed. the certificates stated (some people even have paper certs sent to them) that this cert is good for any hotel up to category 6. How can they replace a paper certificate or gift voucher for something of lesser value. |
Originally Posted by Michelle AnLee Schweitzer
(Post 30104376)
Really bad news for me.
My boyfriend and I booked 27 category 6 packages for our wedding. The hotel is now category 5 and our certs are worthless. I opened a Facebook page calling Marriott out. Share if you agree Marriott just defrauded their customers “Marrirot ruins destination wedding and honeymoon plans for its biggest point collectors” is the kind of headline that grabs attention. |
Originally Posted by Michelle AnLee Schweitzer
(Post 30104405)
The logic of prices going up is flawed. the certificates stated (some people even have paper certs sent to them) that this cert is good for any hotel up to category 6.
How can they replace a paper certificate or gift voucher for something of lesser value. This exact scenario literally happens every year and everyone knows the rules. For example, if you had bought a category 5 certificate in February 2018, and the property you were eyeing went up to category 6 during the March 2018 category update, you would not be able to use your certificate at that property anymore unless you had booked before the category change went into effect to lock in the old rate. Category changes are always announced ahead of time to give people time to book at the old rate and this was no exception. Going back to your case, if you compare the point value of your certificate with the cost of the property that you're interested in, it's easy to see why this doesn't work: - The certificate you bought (old category 6) was worth 30k points per night. - The property you want to book now (new category 5) is worth 35k points per night. Why you would expect this to be possible is beyond me. |
Originally Posted by Michelle AnLee Schweitzer
(Post 30104376)
Really bad news for me.
My boyfriend and I booked 27 category 6 packages for our wedding. The hotel is now category 5 and our certs are worthless. I opened a Facebook page calling Marriott out. Share if you agree Marriott just defrauded their customers While I don't know your exact plans you had with these certificates, just a few points to note: - If you were planning on redeeming all 27 certs at the same time at the same property this may have been difficult. - Even if you were planning on an extended stay at this property, it may have been difficult to secure that many consecutive nights for rewards redemptions. In order to avoid any such unwanted occurrence one could have reserved the room(s) at the property in question and then attach the certificates later. This way you can secure the availability and also the old awards category. Hindsight is 20/20, but since you have so many unused certificates now, you may well try and max the value out of those. BTW: Congrats on being able to spend 8.1m MR-points many people will never earn that many in a lifetime. And: you still have the airline miles to live it up in the sky. |
Originally Posted by funkbandit
(Post 30104731)
In order to avoid any such unwanted occurrence one could have reserved the room(s) at the property in question and then attach the certificates later. This way you can secure the availability and also the old awards category. Hindsight is 20/20, but since you have so many unused certificates now, you may well try and max the value out of those.
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I think it's Marriott's decision for the conversion. But it can do it better, either:
- Publish the conversion chart before Aug 18 - or, allow certificates upgrade/downgrade after Aug 18 I got my tier 1-3, hoping get cat 7. I know I am gambling. But either of the thing happens above, I would still be happy to get what I need for my 7 night stay. |
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