May 11, 2019, 9:00 am
Last edit by: SanDiego1K
Description of resolution can be found here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31088204-post759.html
Outrageous No-Show Fee Incurred At St. Regis Aspen
Apr 7, 2019, 10:00 am
#646
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 42mi from AMS
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott LT Au, Hilton C, IHG PtA
Posts: 576
Having been delayed, had issues and whatnot during travels; whenever I've had travel snafu's I've called the hotel front-desk and informed them that I was delayed, that I was still going to need my room and would pay the original length of my stay. The same as what the OP has done. What matters to me is that 1) I have informed the hotel that I will be arriving later than planned and 2) will honour my financial obligation for the entire stay.
Thus if #1 and #2 have been articulated there should be no need for additional costs charged etc (unless there's costs already made - i.e. airport transfers etc). Night-sweeps of systems, front-desks to check you in, etc - those are all the back-end systems that the customer does and should not care about. As long as one has communicated to the hotel (via the front-desk) what the situation is. If a hotel feels that because of the circumstances they'll modify my reservation to have me arriving the next day without penalties, I'll gladly take it and spend it on room service or other things - I have had very high-end properties (SPG and Marriott, but also Hiltons - and also lower end ones) do that despite me stressing at check-in that I was planning on being billed and paying for the original length of stay.
In OP's case it seems that despite him informing the hotel (of #1 and #2 ) the hotel did something "strange" (and in the aftermath is well aware of the negative effects for the customer!). If this was a helpful Customer Service front-desk agent issue that by modifying the reservation to take a day off (hence points being returned automatically it seems) and thus inadvertently triggering their own No-Show fees, then a service manager should be able to clear that all up quite easily on the spot. The fact that they didn't, means there's other factors in play. Could be from OP's side, could be from a communication point of view, could be an issue between Marriott and the hotel, or simply that the hotel is trying to maximize revenue through unscrupulous ways (other reports are indicative of the later).
That the original reservation was made under SPG rules (OP clarified that I believe), allowing the forfeiture of points in case of a cancellation/no-show, only adds insult to injury since it's not being honoured by Marriott (who assumed _all_ of Starwoods obligations as part of the acquisition, it wasn't a liquidation!).
The other side of this is that if this issue is being worked on internally by Marriott, they can't speak up or give any impressions to that end. Heck, even if they want to tell OP that they -being Marriott Bonvoy- believe he's completely right and they're talking to the property to get them to stop being pompous asses, they can't do that. They of course should actually tell OP it's being worked on, but for OP (and us :P ) that's similar to looking at the File Copy Progress Indicator on Windows '95. I have my own gripes with Marriott, but I can also understand that if the property is being an ..., escalations take time. Starwood in the past seemed to be much better and quicker in making the customer whole (perhaps by eating some of the costs themselves!).
Thus if #1 and #2 have been articulated there should be no need for additional costs charged etc (unless there's costs already made - i.e. airport transfers etc). Night-sweeps of systems, front-desks to check you in, etc - those are all the back-end systems that the customer does and should not care about. As long as one has communicated to the hotel (via the front-desk) what the situation is. If a hotel feels that because of the circumstances they'll modify my reservation to have me arriving the next day without penalties, I'll gladly take it and spend it on room service or other things - I have had very high-end properties (SPG and Marriott, but also Hiltons - and also lower end ones) do that despite me stressing at check-in that I was planning on being billed and paying for the original length of stay.
In OP's case it seems that despite him informing the hotel (of #1 and #2 ) the hotel did something "strange" (and in the aftermath is well aware of the negative effects for the customer!). If this was a helpful Customer Service front-desk agent issue that by modifying the reservation to take a day off (hence points being returned automatically it seems) and thus inadvertently triggering their own No-Show fees, then a service manager should be able to clear that all up quite easily on the spot. The fact that they didn't, means there's other factors in play. Could be from OP's side, could be from a communication point of view, could be an issue between Marriott and the hotel, or simply that the hotel is trying to maximize revenue through unscrupulous ways (other reports are indicative of the later).
That the original reservation was made under SPG rules (OP clarified that I believe), allowing the forfeiture of points in case of a cancellation/no-show, only adds insult to injury since it's not being honoured by Marriott (who assumed _all_ of Starwoods obligations as part of the acquisition, it wasn't a liquidation!).
The other side of this is that if this issue is being worked on internally by Marriott, they can't speak up or give any impressions to that end. Heck, even if they want to tell OP that they -being Marriott Bonvoy- believe he's completely right and they're talking to the property to get them to stop being pompous asses, they can't do that. They of course should actually tell OP it's being worked on, but for OP (and us :P ) that's similar to looking at the File Copy Progress Indicator on Windows '95. I have my own gripes with Marriott, but I can also understand that if the property is being an ..., escalations take time. Starwood in the past seemed to be much better and quicker in making the customer whole (perhaps by eating some of the costs themselves!).
Apr 7, 2019, 6:47 pm
#647
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: DL DM 2MM, Marriott LT Titanium, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 15,204
I have multiple other award reservations were all of them have the same terms where they state " Please note that we will assess a fee if you must cancel after this deadline." and the fee is not defined anywhere, nor can I find what that mysterious fee would be on the Marriott site.
And as some others have said, I've also had reservations where I was delayed due to flight issues and I contacted the hotel and they simple held the res as if I had checked in. In some cases they didn't charge anything since they knew I was having travel issues and still arrived the next day. Simply absurd the abysmal treatment of this property to the OP.
To the OP: Have you tried contacting directly the Marriott execs I previously listed? Or have you also contacted Elliot consumer advocacy? They can provide a lot of assistance in cases like this where the consumer is being treated unfairly.
And as some others have said, I've also had reservations where I was delayed due to flight issues and I contacted the hotel and they simple held the res as if I had checked in. In some cases they didn't charge anything since they knew I was having travel issues and still arrived the next day. Simply absurd the abysmal treatment of this property to the OP.
To the OP: Have you tried contacting directly the Marriott execs I previously listed? Or have you also contacted Elliot consumer advocacy? They can provide a lot of assistance in cases like this where the consumer is being treated unfairly.
Apr 7, 2019, 7:06 pm
#648
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,045
I have multiple other award reservations were all of them have the same terms where they state " Please note that we will assess a fee if you must cancel after this deadline." and the fee is not defined anywhere, nor can I find what that mysterious fee would be on the Marriott site.
And as some others have said, I've also had reservations where I was delayed due to flight issues and I contacted the hotel and they simple held the res as if I had checked in. In some cases they didn't charge anything since they knew I was having travel issues and still arrived the next day. Simply absurd the abysmal treatment of this property to the OP.
To the OP: Have you tried contacting directly the Marriott execs I previously listed? Or have you also contacted Elliot consumer advocacy? They can provide a lot of assistance in cases like this where the consumer is being treated unfairly.
And as some others have said, I've also had reservations where I was delayed due to flight issues and I contacted the hotel and they simple held the res as if I had checked in. In some cases they didn't charge anything since they knew I was having travel issues and still arrived the next day. Simply absurd the abysmal treatment of this property to the OP.
To the OP: Have you tried contacting directly the Marriott execs I previously listed? Or have you also contacted Elliot consumer advocacy? They can provide a lot of assistance in cases like this where the consumer is being treated unfairly.
Apr 9, 2019, 11:00 am
#649
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 143
In this case, my damage would be limited to the discounted price the buyer was offered - because had he taken the offer, the discounted price would have been all that I got anyway. All I lost from him not buying the product is the discounted price he would have paid.
The lost "full price" happened when I sold him the product, not when he canceled the order. The ability to resell the same product at full price was never there.
It's quite surprising someone sees this differently.
The lost "full price" happened when I sold him the product, not when he canceled the order. The ability to resell the same product at full price was never there.
It's quite surprising someone sees this differently.
Apr 9, 2019, 11:29 am
#650
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 143
This thread has become a complete disgrace: a bunch of people stalking a poster, wanting to out his/her name and place of business (certainly not to send him/her a box of chocolates) just because s/he dared express his/her opinion on the thread’s subject, which happens to deviate from the accepted established narrative. Shame!
Apr 9, 2019, 12:10 pm
#651
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kan@da
Programs: Anything with sweet spots
Posts: 1,790
The St. Regis is just following its contract you agreed to when you accepted the terms and conditions. You had ample opportunity to cancel before hand if you did not like the terms they were offering. What would have happened if somehow you did get to Aspen and they had sold your room?
Apr 9, 2019, 3:03 pm
#653
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
How do you verify whether the property was able to resell "your" room? They could, for instance, ask for an absurdly high price so that it doesn't sell, or make your room the last one to sell for the night, so that you're charged unless the property is full that night.
Apr 9, 2019, 3:11 pm
#654
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 121
This thread has become a complete disgrace: a bunch of people stalking a poster, wanting to out his/her name and place of business (certainly not to send him/her a box of chocolates) just because s/he dared express his/her opinion on the thread’s subject, which happens to deviate from the accepted established narrative. Shame!
An Internet troll is a member of an online social community who deliberately tries to disrupt, attack, offend or generally cause trouble within the community by posting certain comments, photos, videos, GIFs or some other form of online content.
Apr 10, 2019, 5:45 am
#655
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Virginia
Programs: HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Marriott nobody
Posts: 470
hotelboy and joakgarp, with respect, I think you are both missing the point.
The rooms were already paid in full in points. The hotel is not out anything by me not showing up until the second day of my 5 night stay. Likewise, sean1397's rooms were fully paid for in advance with points. Please help me understand how the hotel is losing money when we don't show up on the first night of a reservation that is fully paid. The hotel need not do anything w.r.t. reselling the room so it is irrelevant (at least how I see things) as to whether reselling is an option. Further, at least in my specific situation, I let the hotel know that I would not arrive until the afternoon the next day. Optionally, the hotel could have sold my rooms for the 1st night and made some extra dough if there was demand (i.e., they would receive whatever value they get from my points booking plus optionally cash if the room could be resold).
The rooms were already paid in full in points. The hotel is not out anything by me not showing up until the second day of my 5 night stay. Likewise, sean1397's rooms were fully paid for in advance with points. Please help me understand how the hotel is losing money when we don't show up on the first night of a reservation that is fully paid. The hotel need not do anything w.r.t. reselling the room so it is irrelevant (at least how I see things) as to whether reselling is an option. Further, at least in my specific situation, I let the hotel know that I would not arrive until the afternoon the next day. Optionally, the hotel could have sold my rooms for the 1st night and made some extra dough if there was demand (i.e., they would receive whatever value they get from my points booking plus optionally cash if the room could be resold).
What is the goal of a loyalty program again? I know both the hotel and Marriott have been silent publicly on this incident, may be they should come out and explain their logic and reasons.
Apr 10, 2019, 6:02 am
#656
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere between AMS and ANR
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, United Platinum Premier, AF/KLM Platinum
Posts: 266
Was going to book a Marriott in SD (The Fairfield Inn at Jamestown), price of the room was 93$ (AAA rate)...when cancelling or no-showing, I would be forced to pay 204.82$... I think that's ridiculous. Again, forfeiting the amount paid, soit...but even paying a fine on top of that. Guess Marriott wants to incorporate their lunacy in all their hotels now...
- You may cancel your reservation for no charge until September 17, 2019 (2 day[s] before arrival).
- Please note that we will assess a fee of 204.82 USD if you must cancel after this deadline. If you have made a prepayment, we will retain all or part of your prepayment. If not, we will charge your credit card.
Apr 10, 2019, 7:13 am
#657
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
Was going to book a Marriott in SD (The Fairfield Inn at Jamestown), price of the room was 93$ (AAA rate)...when cancelling or no-showing, I would be forced to pay 204.82$... I think that's ridiculous. Again, forfeiting the amount paid, soit...but even paying a fine on top of that. Guess Marriott wants to incorporate their lunacy in all their hotels now...
- You may cancel your reservation for no charge until September 17, 2019 (2 day[s] before arrival).
- Please note that we will assess a fee of 204.82 USD if you must cancel after this deadline. If you have made a prepayment, we will retain all or part of your prepayment. If not, we will charge your credit card.
Apr 10, 2019, 7:41 am
#658
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Quebec and Ontario, Canada
Programs: AC*E50, SPG/Marriott Plat
Posts: 1,917
- if you book using cash a flexible rate and no-show you will be charged for 1 night (this is the standard rule for basic hotels with 48h cancellation policy).
- if you book using points and no-show you will get the points back and be charged for the whole stay.
So, another devaluation of the program.
At some point, the only remaining value of Bonvoy points will be transfer to airlines...
Apr 10, 2019, 9:21 am
#659
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
So basically that means
- if you book using cash a flexible rate and no-show you will be charged for 1 night (this is the standard rule for basic hotels with 48h cancellation policy).
- if you book using points and no-show you will get the points back and be charged for the whole stay.
So, another devaluation of the program.
At some point, the only remaining value of Bonvoy points will be transfer to airlines...
- if you book using cash a flexible rate and no-show you will be charged for 1 night (this is the standard rule for basic hotels with 48h cancellation policy).
- if you book using points and no-show you will get the points back and be charged for the whole stay.
So, another devaluation of the program.
At some point, the only remaining value of Bonvoy points will be transfer to airlines...
Apr 10, 2019, 9:36 am
#660
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Quebec and Ontario, Canada
Programs: AC*E50, SPG/Marriott Plat
Posts: 1,917
Ok, maybe I misunderstood, I thought the AAA rate was for reference. So if the penalty is for 2 nights + tx at the same rate, I think it's ok (definitely not customer friendly when generally the penalty is one night but it's fine as long as it's clearly stated)