Jul 17, 2014, 9:40 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
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This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
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Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
OMNI/PR: Discussion of perspectives on politics and religion, including geopolitics and terrorism (requires 180 days on FT and 180 constructive posts prior to admission)
If you wish to discuss the politics and political implications related to this issue (or others), please do so in OMNI/PR; the MH 777 Crashes In Ukraine - Official In Kiev Claims Airliner Shot Down By Separatists thread is the place.
Travel Safety/Security: Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (including routing passenger aircraft over conflict areas).
Travel Safety/Security: Practical Travel Safety Issues for those discussing travel safety and security issues because they are planning a trip soon (including passport and nationality issues).
TravelBuzz: TravelBuzz for those wishing to discuss the relative safety of a specific aircraft - e.g. Boeing 777.
Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
Thank you.
Malaysia Airlines MH 17 crash in Ukraine (17 July 2014 - PLEASE READ WIKI, FAQ)
Jul 17, 2014, 3:00 pm
#511
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ATL
Programs: Bonvoy Ambassador, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Gold, AA EXP, UA Silver, former DL DM
Posts: 2,001
Given the MH 17 tragedy, I am surprised to see that KL 1387 (Amsterdam-Kiev) departed just 2 hours ago and is now in Ukrainian airspace. No other major airline has any planes in Ukrainian airspace currently...
Jul 17, 2014, 3:00 pm
#512
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
Jul 17, 2014, 3:01 pm
#513
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
I just can't picture the rebels with the kind of training to down a commercial airliner flying at 33,000 feet. What scares me more is that the Russian military was responsible, which means SB Putin was involved or at least have them the authorization to do so. Russia is not a thrid-world banana republic, so it's hard to imagine that SB Putin not having total control of the military.
Sometimes with regards to an Asian group traveling, one person, typically the tour guide, carries all the passports. Do people really put their passports in the seat pocket? In all my years of traveling I have never seen this, but then again, I don't pay attention to what others do. I left something in a menu on an SQ flight and never ever again. Everything is glued to my body.
Jul 17, 2014, 3:03 pm
#514
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Marcos, CA
Programs: DL - DM MM / UA - PP / LH - SEN / Marriott - AMB-LTT / Avis - PC
Posts: 342
Sometimes with regards to an Asian group traveling, one person, typically the tour guide, carries all the passports. Do people really put their passports in the seat pocket? In all my years of traveling I have never seen this, but then again, I don't pay attention to what others do. I left something in a menu on an SQ flight and never ever again. Everything is glued to my body.
What happened is disgusting. Those of us who fly to Europe to Middle East/SE Asia often know our flights pass over this region. It could have been any flight.
What happened is disgusting. Those of us who fly to Europe to Middle East/SE Asia often know our flights pass over this region. It could have been any flight.
It's possible 1 person had all the passports, but doesn't each passenger need to hold and show their passport when boarding an international flight @ AMS?
Jul 17, 2014, 3:03 pm
#515
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: OSL
Programs: SK Diamond, LH SEN, KL Ivory, AY Basic, OZ silver
Posts: 1,103
As Dutch born, I'm really shocked by this news. I wish all those people who are left without their loved ones all the best.
As a kind of joke and reference to MH370, one of the passengers posted a photograph of the aircraft minutes before takeoff with the text:
'in case it goes missing, this is what it looks like'
pic.twitter.com/5if5AohMxJ
Somehow those words feel so awkward now...
As a kind of joke and reference to MH370, one of the passengers posted a photograph of the aircraft minutes before takeoff with the text:
'in case it goes missing, this is what it looks like'
pic.twitter.com/5if5AohMxJ
Somehow those words feel so awkward now...
Jul 17, 2014, 3:04 pm
#516
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
Programs: BA GGL (for now) and Lifetime Gold, Marriott fan thanks to Bonvoy Moments
Posts: 5,115
Presume not many airlines have flights arriving in Kiev at this time of night - BA's only flight that will use Ukraine airspace is their Kiev flight (it's pretty far away from rebel territory)
Jul 17, 2014, 3:04 pm
#517
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: YWG
Programs: Aeroplan, MileagePlus, Marriott Rewards
Posts: 2,159
Not shocking given that the average Russian mercenary trying to stir up trouble in east Ukraine is unlikely to be Mensa material.
Either way, a total tragedy no matter how you slice it. Sympathies to the families of the deceased.
Jul 17, 2014, 3:06 pm
#519
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Programs: KL Gold, SQ KF Gold, CX Green
Posts: 9,412
Look at a map. Kiev is far away from the rebel-held area, and completely safe to fly to.
Jul 17, 2014, 3:08 pm
#520
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,161
Ultimately the man who holds this power is Igor Strelkov (Girkin) because he is the one who gives orders to (most) of the men with guns. As he is "retired" GRU from Moscow, he is either having an adventure leading men into battle on his retirement holiday or else he reports up a chain of command in Moscow. But they were the front line in Slavansk and then decamped a couple of weeks ago for Donetsk. Which the self-declared leaders in Donetsk did not like very much but he did it and that was that so he seems to be the guy calling the big shots.
So it's either his decision or his superiors. Whatever the "self-declared" mayors of the people's republic of so-and-so say won't matter. What's more, one of them can come out and say this, and the others can resist it and you have the standard double game being played. They can point to the media and say well we accepted investigators, and on the ground the investigators can't get in because that guy who accepted is not the gatekeeper. When they complain about the situation, the media will report just as you type here that "the leaders" accepted the inspection.
Jul 17, 2014, 3:08 pm
#521
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Moscow
Programs: Marriott Titanium, IHG Diamond AMB
Posts: 1,756
Jul 17, 2014, 3:08 pm
#522
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Marcos, CA
Programs: DL - DM MM / UA - PP / LH - SEN / Marriott - AMB-LTT / Avis - PC
Posts: 342
It looks like they're over Lithuania/Lativa, which is Baltic airspace.
Jul 17, 2014, 3:08 pm
#523
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: VIE
Programs: SAS EBS / *A Silver, Hilton Diamond, Radisson VIP, IHG Platinum Ambassador
Posts: 3,777
Most of Ukrainian airspace is perfectly safe, there are only few problematic areas - as long as they avoid those, it's ok to fly above Ukraine.
Jul 17, 2014, 3:09 pm
#525
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
No idea, all I could do is speculate. I was responding to the statement that they wouldn't have the training. But its possible they have been trained in the past by the Russian military. Its also possible they were trained yesterday by the Russian military. The point is, I think more signs point to this of being an act of the rebels (and likely not their intention) rather than directly by one of the 2 nations involved in the conflict.