Jul 17, 2014, 9:40 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
WELCOME, MODERATOR GUIDELINES and SUMMARY
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING
If you are new to us, welcome to FlyerTalk! Who we are: FlyerTalk features discussions and chat boards that covers the most up-to-date traveler information; an interactive community dedicated to the topic of travel (not politics or arguments about politics or religion, etc.)
All travelers are welcome in the community. Just choose a forum: conversing about airlines and their programs, airports, destinations, dining and how to make the most of your miles and points, or visit our Information Desk to start.
We do have some Rules, and everyone agrees to abide by these when they are granted free membership privileges. On a topic that generates a lot of feelings and perspectives, please remember "welcoming, respectful" are key words on FlyerTalk.
As with the earlier MH370 thread, please observe the following in this thread:
1. The normal FT Rules apply. (Including not discussing moderation actions on-thread). And please be particularly attentive to "discussing the idea and not the poster" when you have a disagreement. Civility and mutual respect are still expected and are what we owe each other as a community.
2. You are expected to respect our diversity, and therefore refrain from posting inflammatory comments about race, religion, culture, politics, ethnicity, orientation, etc." Do not cite, copy, or report on such.
3. Please do continue to be attentive to the sensibilities of the families of those on the flight. Think about if you were them what you would and would not want to see posted. Speculation about what happened is permissible; please, though, do not indulge in inflammatory or overly-lurid descriptions or depictions (or links to same) that could well be hurtful.
4. Overly / extravagantly exaggerative posts such as conspiracy theories, posts beyond the realm of science and known facts, etc. as well as posts with information that has been posted several times previously may be summarily deleted. Moderator actions may not be discussed in posts on FlyerTalk.
5. In addition, those who repeatedly fail to comply with FlyerTalk Rules or the guidelines for this thread, may be subjected to FlyerTalk disciplinary actions and have membership privileges suspended, forum masks, etc.
FT MH 017 / Other Asian, Australian, and South Pacific Forum Moderation Team:
ABroadAbroad
cblaisd
JDiver
NewbieRunner
for the MH 17 Moderation Team
N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note.
N. B. PLEASE SEE THE FAQ IN POST NO. 1.
OTHER FORA OF INTEREST:
This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
OMNI/PR: Discussion of perspectives on politics and religion, including geopolitics and terrorism (requires 180 days on FT and 180 constructive posts prior to admission)
If you wish to discuss the politics and political implications related to this issue (or others), please do so in OMNI/PR; the MH 777 Crashes In Ukraine - Official In Kiev Claims Airliner Shot Down By Separatists thread is the place.
Travel Safety/Security: Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (including routing passenger aircraft over conflict areas).
Travel Safety/Security: Practical Travel Safety Issues for those discussing travel safety and security issues because they are planning a trip soon (including passport and nationality issues).
TravelBuzz: TravelBuzz for those wishing to discuss the relative safety of a specific aircraft - e.g. Boeing 777.
Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
OMNI/PR: Discussion of perspectives on politics and religion, including geopolitics and terrorism (requires 180 days on FT and 180 constructive posts prior to admission)
If you wish to discuss the politics and political implications related to this issue (or others), please do so in OMNI/PR; the MH 777 Crashes In Ukraine - Official In Kiev Claims Airliner Shot Down By Separatists thread is the place.
Travel Safety/Security: Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (including routing passenger aircraft over conflict areas).
Travel Safety/Security: Practical Travel Safety Issues for those discussing travel safety and security issues because they are planning a trip soon (including passport and nationality issues).
TravelBuzz: TravelBuzz for those wishing to discuss the relative safety of a specific aircraft - e.g. Boeing 777.
Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
Thank you.
Malaysia Airlines MH 17 crash in Ukraine (17 July 2014 - PLEASE READ WIKI, FAQ)
Jul 17, 2014, 3:50 pm
#556
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Marcos, CA
Programs: DL - DM MM / UA - PP / LH - SEN / Marriott - AMB-LTT / Avis - PC
Posts: 342
Can someone Spanish-speaking browse through this account? https://twitter.com/spainbuca
Apparently a traffic controller who works in Borispol. Not sure if relevant, but makes some peculiar claims.
Apparently a traffic controller who works in Borispol. Not sure if relevant, but makes some peculiar claims.
Jul 17, 2014, 3:53 pm
#557
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,924
Yeah I went through the same exercise but Chrome had a really hard time with it, so not sure how reliable my reading is, and so I can't even begin to wonder how reliable the source is.
Jul 17, 2014, 3:53 pm
#558
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: BAEC, Virgin
Posts: 11
This comes from Facebook originally - I won't post the link but it is easy to find. There is a conversation in the comments section that appears genuine. Friends and family of the two victims saying happy holiday etc. then reports of the crash by some family/friends and reactions to it. Then condolences etc. Timing is right as well. The account and reactions seem genuine - maybe the poster used an old photo, maybe there was a change of plane.
Jul 17, 2014, 3:54 pm
#559
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Marcos, CA
Programs: DL - DM MM / UA - PP / LH - SEN / Marriott - AMB-LTT / Avis - PC
Posts: 342
Yeah and if you dig back into his tweets from the last few days, they're all very political.
Jul 17, 2014, 3:57 pm
#560
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: On the road somewhere
Programs: DL, National, Marriott, Hilton
Posts: 4,304
Can someone Spanish-speaking browse through this account? https://twitter.com/spainbuca
Apparently a traffic controller who works in Borispol. Not sure if relevant, but makes some peculiar claims.
Apparently a traffic controller who works in Borispol. Not sure if relevant, but makes some peculiar claims.
This tweet was published at 5:06pm from NYC time:
Military commanders here (ATC) tower control, confirm that the missile is of the army of Ukraine,
Jul 17, 2014, 3:58 pm
#561
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2
I ask because I was thinking about corridors over Syria and Afghanistan. Which I understand commercial airlines still fly over between Europe and South East Asia?
More advanced surface to air missile capabilities extend to FL100 (100,000 feet).
While the Pilot In Control has ultimate discretion I suspect airline policy plays a strong part in the ultimate routing given fuel consumption and flight time considerations.
If helpful to others in their choice of airline: flightaware shows flight routes.
Last edited by StudentPilot; Jul 17, 2014 at 4:05 pm
Jul 17, 2014, 3:59 pm
#562
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,924
You can view translations directly from Twitter...it's obviously not perfect but if you are on someone's page and click on a tweet, it will bring up all the information about the tweet, and if it isn't in English there should be an option to view the translation.
This tweet was published at 5:06pm from NYC time:
https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489878810066972672
This tweet was published at 5:06pm from NYC time:
https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489878810066972672
Jul 17, 2014, 4:01 pm
#563
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 74
The person who ultimately launched the SAM was not an idiot. Let's face it, if he was, they wouldn't have put him in charge in the first place, right? On second thought, maybe he was indeed an idiot and couldn't tell what kind of plane he was targeting before firing the SAM?
Last edited by aBroadAbroad; Jul 17, 2014 at 6:56 pm Reason: Removed overly speculative bit
Jul 17, 2014, 4:03 pm
#564
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,130
I hadn't even noticed that. It looks like 9M-MRC flew AMS - KUL on July 11th but it was most recently operating MH 132 (AKL - KUL) on July 16th. Oddly according to FA it hasn't flown since arriving in KUL on the morning of July 16th.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:04 pm
#565
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 341
Regarding the ATC guy, he seems to be claiming that the plane was shot down by Ukranian forces and that the way the military took control of the tower (knowing details of what happened) made him think that it was Ukraine. He also seemed to be relying on RT earlier on.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:04 pm
#566
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: QLA
Programs: SBUX Gold
Posts: 14,507
You can view translations directly from Twitter...it's obviously not perfect but if you are on someone's page and click on a tweet, it will bring up all the information about the tweet, and if it isn't in English there should be an option to view the translation.
This tweet was published at 5:06pm from NYC time:
https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489878810066972672
This tweet was published at 5:06pm from NYC time:
Military commanders here (ATC) tower control, confirm that the missile is of the army of Ukraine,
Jul 17, 2014, 4:05 pm
#567
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ATL
Programs: Bonvoy Ambassador, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Gold, AA EXP, UA Silver, former DL DM
Posts: 2,001
If they're going to operate the flight it kind of has to go through Ukranian airspace.
It currently seems likely that the missile was attributable to rebel forces and not Ukrainian military, but the fact that it has not yet been proven beyond reasonable doubt that Ukrainian forces were not involved in shooting down MH 17 would be sufficient reason in my mind to suspend any flights to Kiev (as Emirates did today).
Intercontinental traffic remains busy at this hour, and there are literally dozens of commercial planes flying over neighboring countries like Romania, Hungary, and Belarus currently.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:05 pm
#568
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Marcos, CA
Programs: DL - DM MM / UA - PP / LH - SEN / Marriott - AMB-LTT / Avis - PC
Posts: 342
This comes from Facebook originally - I won't post the link but it is easy to find. There is a conversation in the comments section that appears genuine. Friends and family of the two victims saying happy holiday etc. then reports of the crash by some family/friends and reactions to it. Then condolences etc. Timing is right as well. The account and reactions seem genuine - maybe the poster used an old photo, maybe there was a change of plane.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:07 pm
#569
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 341
Jul 17, 2014, 4:10 pm
#570
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,130
Wow talk about fate. This also confirms the earlier reports that the plane was completely full.
Article from the Telegraph basically says a couple (plus baby) were IDB'd (presumably or at the very least VDB'd) off MH17 due to a lack of seats and put on the later KLM flight instead.
Article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-of-seats.html
Article from the Telegraph basically says a couple (plus baby) were IDB'd (presumably or at the very least VDB'd) off MH17 due to a lack of seats and put on the later KLM flight instead.
A couple who had been planning to fly on the Malaysia Airlines flight that crashed in Ukraine spoke last night of the “sick feeling” they experienced on hearing the news.
Barry Sim and his wife Izzy were told there were not enough seats on the plane for them and their baby so they switched to a later KLM flight.
Barry Sim and his wife Izzy were told there were not enough seats on the plane for them and their baby so they switched to a later KLM flight.