Jul 17, 2014, 9:40 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
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This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
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If you wish to discuss the politics and political implications related to this issue (or others), please do so in OMNI/PR; the MH 777 Crashes In Ukraine - Official In Kiev Claims Airliner Shot Down By Separatists thread is the place.
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Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
OMNI/PR: Discussion of perspectives on politics and religion, including geopolitics and terrorism (requires 180 days on FT and 180 constructive posts prior to admission)
If you wish to discuss the politics and political implications related to this issue (or others), please do so in OMNI/PR; the MH 777 Crashes In Ukraine - Official In Kiev Claims Airliner Shot Down By Separatists thread is the place.
Travel Safety/Security: Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (including routing passenger aircraft over conflict areas).
Travel Safety/Security: Practical Travel Safety Issues for those discussing travel safety and security issues because they are planning a trip soon (including passport and nationality issues).
TravelBuzz: TravelBuzz for those wishing to discuss the relative safety of a specific aircraft - e.g. Boeing 777.
Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
Thank you.
Malaysia Airlines MH 17 crash in Ukraine (17 July 2014 - PLEASE READ WIKI, FAQ)
Jul 17, 2014, 1:34 pm
#436
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Per BBC, "Russia's emergency services have reportedly asked the Ukrainian government for permission to work at the crash site."
Jul 17, 2014, 1:36 pm
#437
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and he could only book the later KL flight
Jul 17, 2014, 1:36 pm
#438
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Jul 17, 2014, 1:36 pm
#439
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I was commenting on MH 5631 which was reported to have just taken off from AMS according to the post I quoted.
Does anyone know whether MH has ground staff based at AMS versus having KLM do all of their ground handling? Since they're longterm partners and MH apparently just has the one AMS-KUL flight, it would seem likely that KLM takes care of the MH flight at AMS.
Jul 17, 2014, 1:37 pm
#441
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Francisco
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A standard surface to air missile (SAM) of which the Russians have a lot. The type all nations with advanced weaponry possess.
Jul 17, 2014, 1:38 pm
#442
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Unfortunately not. If there was ever a situation that screams for UN involvement and coordination, this would be it.
Jul 17, 2014, 1:38 pm
#443
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CNN is reporting that someone on the ground there claims that the black box has been found and will be sent to Russia. Of course, black boxes can always be lost again, destroyed, handled improperly resulting in data being lost, etc.
It's not good that locals are walking through the crash site (once it was determined that there were no survivors), moving/removing passengers' passports, etc., although maybe all of the photos being taken by locals and the media will be useful for the investigation.
It's not good that locals are walking through the crash site (once it was determined that there were no survivors), moving/removing passengers' passports, etc., although maybe all of the photos being taken by locals and the media will be useful for the investigation.
Jul 17, 2014, 1:38 pm
#444
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Between AMS and BRU
Posts: 8,852
You're right... It was reported as MH but it's actually KL809, should have noticed the MH flight number.
Jul 17, 2014, 1:38 pm
#445
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan98
Yes. http://news.klm.com/incident-with-ma...light-mh017-e/
Yes, it was announced fairly early that MH17 also had a codeshare with a KLM 4XXX flight number and (hence) there were a number of Dutch passengers, including one or more Dutch tour groups.
I was commenting on MH 5631 which was reported to have just taken off from AMS according to the post I quoted.
Does anyone know whether MH has ground staff based at AMS versus having KLM do all of their ground handling? Since they're longterm partners and MH apparently just has the one AMS-KUL flight, it would seem likely that KLM takes care of the MH flight at AMS.
Originally Posted by Dan98
Yes. http://news.klm.com/incident-with-ma...light-mh017-e/
Yes, it was announced fairly early that MH17 also had a codeshare with a KLM 4XXX flight number and (hence) there were a number of Dutch passengers, including one or more Dutch tour groups.
I was commenting on MH 5631 which was reported to have just taken off from AMS according to the post I quoted.
Does anyone know whether MH has ground staff based at AMS versus having KLM do all of their ground handling? Since they're longterm partners and MH apparently just has the one AMS-KUL flight, it would seem likely that KLM takes care of the MH flight at AMS.
Jul 17, 2014, 1:38 pm
#446
Join Date: May 2001
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Posts: 276
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
There were reports that the rebels posted they had captured at least one of these around 3 weeks back (of course they are now denying it and all posts to the contrary have been deleted).
Jul 17, 2014, 1:40 pm
#447
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KABC7 in LA reporting that the pro-Russian separatists have found the black boxes.
https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/489854401847111680
EDIT:
Not good... not good at all. A 3rd party (4th, if you include the separatists) really should be leading the investigation, e.g., UN, a non-NATO sovereign nation with expertise.
https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/489854401847111680
EDIT:
Not good... not good at all. A 3rd party (4th, if you include the separatists) really should be leading the investigation, e.g., UN, a non-NATO sovereign nation with expertise.
Jul 17, 2014, 1:42 pm
#448
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According to newspapers and some former military personnel, both groups - Ukraine govt. and the separatist rebels have "Buk" missile system, which has the altitude range (46,000') to hit the airliner, which was cruising at 33,000'. Those systems form part of the arsenal left over after the breakdown of the Soviet Union.
Jul 17, 2014, 1:42 pm
#449
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CNN is reporting that someone on the ground there claims that the black box has been found and will be sent to Russia. Of course, black boxes can always be lost again, destroyed, handled improperly resulting in data being lost, etc.
It's not good that locals are walking through the crash site (once it was determined that there were no survivors), moving/removing passengers' passports, etc., although maybe all of the photos being taken by locals and the media will be useful for the investigation.
It's not good that locals are walking through the crash site (once it was determined that there were no survivors), moving/removing passengers' passports, etc., although maybe all of the photos being taken by locals and the media will be useful for the investigation.
KABC7 in LA reporting that the pro-Russian separatists have found the black boxes.
https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/489854401847111680
https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/489854401847111680
Jul 17, 2014, 1:42 pm
#450
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Cambridge
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As in, you'd need a full-size truck-transported SAM battery (like the BUK mentioned earlier) in order to hit a plane that high up. Hand-held SAM's like the American Stinger simply don't have enough range.
There's indication that the Ukrainian rebels have man-portable SAM's but the kind that can shoot down an airplane at 32,000' is beyond that's been reported.