LH increases[/reduces] fuel surcharge
Aug 8, 2013, 1:16 am
#331
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: *G, used to be with TK but left due to their corruption and political ties
Posts: 4,407
Why fuel surcharges are bogus
Very true. I've posted this in another thread but fuel surcharges have nothing with fuel to do, it is all about getting extra revenue on your ticket. Have a look at some of the arguments below.
Why fuel surcharges are bogus
A few more incentives why airlines prefer to keep using fuel surcharges
Why fuel surcharges are bogus
- Airlines collect different amounts of money when codesharing. For example flying in business FRA-DEL AI charges €126 in YQ on their own plane. If you book the exact same flight as a LH codeshare, LH wants €182 in fuel surcharge. How can LH [logically] ask for almost 50% higher fuel surcharge than the operating carrier?
- Airlines collect money from made up charges. For example LH collects a fuel surcharge when you are travelling with a LH-ticket on a train! LH wants a €43 fuel surcharge for a 1 hour train ride (eg. ZWS-FRA) booked with LH-code to pay for the train's fuel on top of the fare charged for that segment. LH’s YQ is higher than what the train operator is charging for their tickets (spar-preis).
- Airlines adjust the fuel surcharge based on the fare. A roundtrip HEL-FRA-HEL in Y-class with LH costs €86 in fuel surcharges, the exact same flights in L-class cost €38 in fuel surcharges. So promotion tickets have a lower fuel surcharge. Guess which one they use for calculation when you buy an award ticket…
- Fuel surcharges are market based. A round-trip ticket FRA-NYC-FRA costs €284 on LH. But if you fly the reverse you pay €388 in fuel surcharge. (though I guess here the airline could argue that fuel price depends on where they fill up the plane)
- As is evident in this thread, YQ does not follow fuel price.
A few more incentives why airlines prefer to keep using fuel surcharges
- The airline gets cash revenue also from bonus tickets
- When a TA or savvy FTer is comparing prices the lowest base fares are shown first, making it more probable that the person will look for those fares.
- You get full surcharge also from discounted fares such as infant with seat and children.
- You can make a big campaign or corporate deal saying "all our prices 50% off". Sure, but you will still collect the fuel surcharge in full meaning the end price is not 50% off.
- Apparently fuel surcharges are easier to adjust for the airline than changing the base fares.
- It looks better for the airline when quoting prices to the average passenger "We only want €99 for this ticket but the taxes and fees are €300"
Aug 8, 2013, 1:52 am
#332
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
Gnopps: a fine summary. But I think you are preaching to the converted: we understand it is a scam. The airline of course knows this, but it also knows it can get away with it. So the question has to be, if you are unhappy, what do you do next?
Unfortunately, regulators and many customers are not all that unhappy with the status quo. They recognise that the airline requires a certain level of revenue to survive, keep shareholders happy, etc Their concern is that you get rid of fuel surcharge, and the cash that generates from (for example) award flights, fares elsewhere will simply increase to preserve the same income.
Unfortunately, regulators and many customers are not all that unhappy with the status quo. They recognise that the airline requires a certain level of revenue to survive, keep shareholders happy, etc Their concern is that you get rid of fuel surcharge, and the cash that generates from (for example) award flights, fares elsewhere will simply increase to preserve the same income.
Aug 8, 2013, 3:13 am
#334
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,187
Usually they are refundable. E/L/T/K fares have some text in the penalties about no refund ability, but they even refund those nowadays after imposing a refund fee.
Aug 8, 2013, 3:35 am
#335
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ORD
Programs: BA, AA, SQ, UA, AC, WS, MR TIT
Posts: 8,659
LH refunded for me the original fare less the penalty to my CC but they ignored refunding the fuel surcharges and taxes!!! What should I do in that case?
Aug 8, 2013, 3:44 am
#336
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,187
Ask the LH lurker... they should be able to check how the refund was calculated. I always get a letter with the detailed break up a few weeks later.
Aug 8, 2013, 3:56 am
#337
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,164
Most non-refundable tickets fare conditions also make the fuel surcharges non-refundable. Only the government mandated taxes and fees are refunded, and those also subject to a refund fee which is often greater than the taxes, meaning you get nothing. It's another one to add to Gnopps' list. If a refundable fare makes the fuel surcharge refundable, this alone IMO is enough to persuade that the airlines treat YQ as part of the fare. The whole system is dishonest.
Aug 18, 2013, 6:41 pm
#338
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: BA,LH,LY,OK
Posts: 362
Just noticed while looking at the M&M booking system that flights exTLV to Europe (FCO, CDG,LHR)
are now 350-450$ in taxes!!
this is outrageous !! it used to be 240-400(LHR being the only one reaching aroud 400...all other were around 300 max) just a few days ago
the weird thing is that taxes for flying TLV-FRA\ZRH are only 180-220$
why is there such a BIG difference if i'm connecting to another destination or just flying to FRA\ZRH (i understand that in that situation you also pay tax at your final destination...but that doesn't explain the NEW 100$ increase)
are now 350-450$ in taxes!!
this is outrageous !! it used to be 240-400(LHR being the only one reaching aroud 400...all other were around 300 max) just a few days ago
the weird thing is that taxes for flying TLV-FRA\ZRH are only 180-220$
why is there such a BIG difference if i'm connecting to another destination or just flying to FRA\ZRH (i understand that in that situation you also pay tax at your final destination...but that doesn't explain the NEW 100$ increase)
Last edited by photographer2012; Aug 19, 2013 at 2:15 am
Aug 19, 2013, 2:21 am
#340
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: BA,LH,LY,OK
Posts: 362
i remember reading an article here saying it's not worth "saving" for your dream award because there is a miles inflation caused by airlines...so you might be better booking the flights now because in the future it may go up again
i find this 100$ increase to be the same as increasing their miles requirement for their awards...just without having to get all the fire from flyers about changing their award chart
just terrible, i can't believe i need to spend 350$ to get an "award" flight now.
an article from the wall street journal about the increase
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...31-706666.html
don't know if it's been published before in the thread...
Last edited by photographer2012; Aug 19, 2013 at 2:28 am
Aug 19, 2013, 4:28 am
#341
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,853
I believe it is pretty obvious why 4 connecting flights results in higher YQ than 2 direct flights...
Aug 19, 2013, 4:46 am
#342
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: BA,LH,LY,OK
Posts: 362
they claimed they wont increase taxes intra-europe (according to the article)
so it doesn't make sense
also TLV-ZRH is 4 hours flight and the increase is 30$, but when you add another 1.5h flight...it's 70-100$!
Aug 19, 2013, 5:43 am
#343
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: BTS/VIE
Programs: LH MM**, HH Silver
Posts: 2,282
Well, there should be nothing like a "fuel surcharge" in the first place. I'm wondering why we can't see other transportation companies (imagine Deutsche Bahn for example) charging any kind of similar levy, even though I'm almost sure the energy/fuel they use to transport people is not for free 
They still manage to have that in their fare somehow...
They still manage to have that in their fare somehow...
Aug 19, 2013, 8:31 am
#344
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
Well, there should be nothing like a "fuel surcharge" in the first place. I'm wondering why we can't see other transportation companies (imagine Deutsche Bahn for example) charging any kind of similar levy, even though I'm almost sure the energy/fuel they use to transport people is not for free
They still manage to have that in their fare somehow...
They still manage to have that in their fare somehow...
Aug 19, 2013, 11:11 am
#345
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: BTS/VIE
Programs: LH MM**, HH Silver
Posts: 2,282