sinoflyer

It's an itinerary comprised of two oneway segments. UA's role ends at the stopover point. You and I agree that the agent should not have inputted Russia in TIMATIC.

All of Europe is visa-free for U.S. citizens. A U.S. citizen does not need any proof of onward or return travel to enter Europe, and that's really all that the UA agent needed to be concerned about.

ELAL

Europe, meant Brussels.

televisor

This is not entirely true - you'd need a Visa for Belarus (admittedly this is probably of little relevance for OP).

Also some countries may require proof of onward travel, e.g. Ukraine (you'd really have to check this on a one-by-one basis for any non-Schengen countries to be sure).

miikkak

The destination of onward ticket matters because (s)he doesn't have EU passport or residency in a Schengen country. Non-residents must have a ticket from Schengen country to another destination and valid documents. Check TIMATIC!

Often1

You are missing the point. This is not about whether OP requires a Belgian visa to enter Belgium (he has now identified BRU as his European destination), it is about whether OP has the necessary documents for the trip. That includes Russia.

TIMATIC, which is what the UA agent would see in front of him, makes it quite clear that as a USN boarding a flight USA-BRU, OP would require the documents required for his next destination. I have pasted the specific language below. This is true if OP is a UK resident as his profile location indicates.

Visitors are required to hold proof of sufficient funds to cover their stay and documents required for their next destination.

docbert

This is *exactly* the point. Many countries have this requirement, and it means that you need to have not just a ticket to another country, but (if one is required) a visa to enter that country.

As the OP didn't have a visa to enter Russia, they also didn't have the necessary documents to enter Belgium. As they didn't have the documents required to enter Belgium, UA was correct to deny boarding.

In practice, it's very likely that immigration in Belgium would have let them in regardless - but that's not the point. UA has to follow the rules, and in this case they did it to the letter.

sinoflyer

Nevermind. I suppose that the confusion is caused by both segments on the same itinerary. If OP had separate tickets on different PNRs there would have been no problems.

docbert

It's a direct quote from Timatic (check for yourself - http://www.staralliance.com/en/servi...sa-and-health/)

It's possibly of course that Timatic is wrong, but if it is it's hard to blame United given that it's accepted by countless airlines as an authoritative source...

mherdeg

I think Timatic may be presenting an additional country-specific requirement for Belgium here, but it's super unclear.

In general, entering a Schengen country requires a U.S. passport with a distant-future validity date; a justifiable reason for travel; proof of financial resources; and compliance with any additional country-specific entry requirements.

The Belgian government says re: American visitors, http://countries.diplomatie.belgium....gium/visitors/ , that

They don't say that this visa-free entry for US citizens requires proof of onward travel.

I do see that the Belgian embassy in Australia says that NZ/AU citizens *do* need proof of onward travel ( http://countries.diplomatie.belgium....schengen_visa/ ) :
Could they have special rules for Americans vs. Australians re: requiring proof of onward transit? Weird.

I cannot find a better source about what the actual Belgian immigration rule is (I cannot figure out who their relevant agency is and what *real* additional country-specific rules they impose on top of the Schengen requirements).

And Timatic of course does not provide any citation to real law or policy.

WineCountryUA

As this is a double post and the carrier denying access was not UA but SN per http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufth...ng-flight.html
Will sent this to that forum for merger.

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator

pinniped

Many countries require proof that you're planning and capable of leaving the country. If you fly in with a one-way itin, the immigration official might want to see a printout of the onward itin. (Since a lot of my award trips are two one-way itins, I always carry the paper copies of everything - just in case.)

Thus, I'd probably never embark on a multi-country itin without all of the required visas in hand before the trip. Not sure if this is actually why UA denied boarding, but definitely a risk with the OP's plan of obtaining visas from foreign embassies while en route.

Flying Lawyer

Since the OP was flying on SN one could easily assume that the flight was US to Belgium.....

weero

That is well possible but always worth a try to claim an IDB via a claim agency.

Still the OP could have simply bought a full fare ticket or a one-way award EU-US earlier than the Russia trip and canceled that one upon arrival in Europe and avoid the ambiguity regarding the compensation.

I did this once when I flew CH-US-Oz and the check-in ape at ZRH could for the love of Zeus not determine whether my visa to Oz was valid for a one-way ticket (it was the return flight).
I booked a US-CH award within two mins for 30 days in the future and that satisfied the agent.
Had no issue boarding my Oz flight in the US ...

warakorn

There are exceptions to this rule. Its somewhat easier to get a Russian Visa in Finland (Schengen) without being a permanent resident there. The OP has not revealed to us how he planed to obtain Russian Visa in the EU. However, I do not think that is relevant anymore.

I am 200% sure that an UK citizen is not required to have an onward ticket, when entering Belgium. UK and Belgium are part of the EU and there is a freedom of movement clause in place for EU citizens. An UK citizen can always move and establish permanent residency in Belgium - without any visa or prior approval.

That changes the story a bit. However, I am pretty sure that US citizen do not have to own an onward ticket for stays up to 90 days in the EU. I will look into it. I will start a query in a Schengen specific message board. However, I am also 200% sure that a flight ticket is not required, because you can leave the Schengen zone as pedestrian, as tramper, by train, by car, by bus etc. He could have walked between the border stations of Hungary (Schengen) and Romania (Non-Schengen) or just board a boat between Hoek (Belgium) and Harwich (UK).
http://www.stenaline.com/en-GB-corp/corporate/routes

http://www.info4alien.de/cgi-bin/for...num=1444938174

According to that board, US citizens are trusted to leave Schengen in time, hence, there is no onward ticket requirement.
I am sure when the OP writes to the Belgium embassy in the US, he will receive a similar (authoritative) answer.

If Timatic is wrong, then the airline has to bear the responsibility.
The passenger has just to prove that there is no onward ticket requirement in place, which is easy to obtain.

What has this topic to do with UA?
I thought we are talking about SN here? Or are we talking about the SN contract staff at an US outstation?

Here is my take on it (in case SN was the culprit):
1) Airline was wrong.
2) SN owes the passenger EUR 600 denied boarding compensation. (EC261/2004)
3) Passenger can decide whether to claim a full refund or a free rebooking to another date (EC261/2004).
4) A DOT complaint could be filed once the passenger obtains the information that no onward ticket is needed to enter Belgium for up to 90 days.
5) If the airline acts in bad faith (denying a free rebooking to another date), the passenger may claim consequential damages, as well.


All I can hope is that SN receives a substantial fine. The check-in staff for a European flight should know the basic entry requirements for US citizens into Schengen - without having to consult TIMATIC. I really have to wonder. There should be quite a number of US citizens flying on SN from the US to Belgium on a one-way ticket (esp. the corporate folks).

Ari

Actually, TIMATIC doesn't say that. It says that "documents required for their next destination". It says nothing about tickets. Perhaps that is because historically many travelers used to show up in Europe intending to purchase onward rail tickets after arrival rather than in advance; now it is easy to purchase them in advance online, but it wasn't always that way.