NewbieRunner

Let's hope this is a classic case of LH trying to manage customer expectations. Assuming they know what they are talking about LHPII said the retrofit will last up to 5 years due to 3 weeks ground time required. Later hamallu wrote retrofits are being scheduled for up to 28 days.

So 28 days and 5 years are the worst case scenario. LH miraculously manages to retrofit all 65 Airbuses in 4 years 10 months and customers are mightily impressed!

hamallu

You guys are all taking things out in of context. YES, I did indeed say that the F retrofit can take up to 28 days but you are all wayyyy out of point here because they are normally integrated into an IL or D-check, meaning the cabin will be done up but the plane still won't be release to service as the routine checks would not have been finished. And that you see my dears, is what you all neglected to picture. The layover time for an overhaul will easily surpass the 28 days for the F retrofit and if you drop in a full paint job too, you can find that a large aircraft will be turned into a sitting duck for up to 49 days or so in the hangar loosing millions of euros for it's owner.

And P.S, have any of you flown on modern F suites or even VS/NZ's J class? You may notice a slight difference in height between the seat area's floor compared to that of the galley's or lavs. That's because modern suites are so heavy they are themselves installed on a pellet and then the pellet installed on the seat track of the aircraft, so as to spread out the weight.

Now I know all that might have sounded off topic, but I've seen the modification of Etihad's old Diamond class into the current F Suites offering and those things were so heavy that they had to completely strip out the F and part of forward J sections so as to restructure the airframe and increase a new seat track, in order to support those damn suites. Which makes for quite a weird experience IMHO as there's a roughly 2in height difference between the galley floor level and the floor level of the pellets.

Whilst I am not saying it would take such a degree of work for LH. I can assure you that all you are seeing is with your eyes blinkered on "let's pull out the old seats and stick in the new ones". You have to think beyond the superficial things that you as passengers see. Look up pictures on a.net of stripped airliner cabins and you'll start to appreciate what goes on underneath.

NA-Flyer

So by the time they finish installing the new seats on all the planes then the seat design and life cycle will be outdated and will need a replacement

DFW-SEN

I couldn't agree more.
S

supermasterphil

So the Original Post about 28 days for a F retrofit would have been proper if you would have said that there will also be other stuff done to the aircraft that is rather unrelated to the F retrofit and thats why it takes so long!

hamallu

No, because the first aircraft is indeed only going in for the F retrofit as well as Flynet II and getting it's STC, and if you read my post I did not say it was combined with a scheduled maintenance check. Hence the 28 days and if you read carefully it says upto, but then again knowing it's the first one and that it needs to get its STC, it might jolly well take even longer and that, although unfortunate, is how the aviation world works.

supermasterphil

Okay. I am sure they will get more used to it once they have done a couple of aircraft and maybe get it done in less time.

Since you know what will be done to these aircraft as well, did they point out the exact two A346 and the A343 already for the job? Do you happen to know know the tail numbers? Might be interesting to track them.

johndeere19

+1 ^

Is there any other information on what (types of) planes will go under the knife after these three and when?

SuperFlyBoy

Do you mean pallet, a term as used for stacked heavy cargo's support structures at bottom?

I'm now actually interested in these structural requirements, somehow...!

Any links to reports on such refits?

LHPII

OK, now another set of infos regarding a new First class retrofit:

In 2011 10 B744s will get a new First class or modified and upgraded version of current one.
7 B744SCDs will not get upgraded at all as they are probaly first planned for a phase-out.
For the rest of 13 B744's (as well as ceretain number of A346's) LH is reevaluating a 2-class retrofit, but this is still in re-evaluiation mode, decision pending.
So, the retrofit plan for 2011 looks a bit more ambitious as previously anticipated with only 2 A346's and a single A343.
So next year we will see 10 B744's, 8 A380's, 2 A346's and 1 A343 retrofited with the new First class!

NewbieRunner

Thanks for this additional info. ^

When you say the "new" First Class for the B744, do you mean something similar to the First Class seats on the A380? Previously we were under the impression that one of each pair of First Class seats on the B744 would be turned into permanent "bed".

LHPII

more or less yes, LH Technik has developed a retrofit package for B744's First class, which will bring it in harmony with a new First class, designwise at least, same colors, but dont know the details yet

divjan

it would be really interesting what LH decides to do with the 744 F class...for one thing i think they will never put the new seats on the upper deck just because of the weight of the seats.....just trying to visualize the upper deck with pairs of 8 dark colored seats/beds and brown blankets@:-)

NewbieRunner

Will 8 new First Class seats weigh more than 16 old First Class seats?

Brown blankets? You must mean white duvets?

divjan

i would not be surprised that 3 to 4 old seats would weigh as much as 1 new seat

they do have some very nice brown warm blankets, they look thin but very warm..did not get a chance to look at the composition ....in addition to the duvets