nycnyc

Sorry! I was going by the directions the PH concierge gave me when I went to Kyoto and back.

OsakaWino

Someone staying at these properties should point out that it is incorrect to call service charges a "tax". Listing any charges other than taxes on a receipt is illegal in Japan (although in advertising, etc., it is acceptable to says things like "includes taxes, etc." or "includes 18.65% tax and service").

National "Consumption Tax" (that is the official name of the tax in English and is required to be indicated as such on all English receipts) is 5%. However, that tax is also levied on service charges, so if both tax and 13% service are added on after the other charges, it might appear to be a 5.65% tax, but to indicated it as such on a receipt is against government guidelines. The Japanese government has instructed that ALL prices of goods and services be indicated inclusive of the Consumption Tax (although it is allowable to indicate both the tax-inclusive price and tax-excluded price together. Unfortunately, there are not penalties for failure to follow follow these regulations. When the Consumption Tax is increased to 8% next April, there will be a grace period during which only tax-excluded prices many be displayed.

Tokyo hotel "Accommodation Tax" (again, that is the official name of the tax in English and is required to be indicated as such on all English receipts)is ¥100/person for accommodation charges (inclusive of service charges, but excluding any charges for food, parking, internet, etc.) of above ¥10,000 and below ¥15,000 per person per night, and ¥200/person for ¥15,000/person/night and higher. This tax also applies to children if the charge for children is within that range. This tax was very controversial when first introduced, since Tokyo is the only place to charge such a tax. Prefectures and other local governments in Japan do not generally have the power to freely levy taxes.

Unfortunately, as Hyatt.com is not a Japanese website, it is probably outside of most Japanese government control, even if the government did take an interest in correcting some of these problems. All of the Hyatts in Japan used to have their own Japan-based websites, both in Japanese and English, that of course more closely followed Japanese government regulations, but Hyatt forced them to close them down. Now the Japanese language version of Hyatt.com is just a machine translated version of the English and incorrectly lists the Consumption Tax as "Government Tax" and because it lists the tax before the 13% service charge, it makes it appear that the tax is 5.65%, when actually it is 5% x (room charge + service charge).

OsakaWino

Nothing at all to do with local Tokyo ordinances (prefectures in Japan do not have the power to set laws). Hyatt policies in Tokyo (to be fair, Conrad too, so maybe all of the foreign chains) are in direct opposition to Japanese government guidelines, which require the display of prices/rates inclusive of Consumption Tax (they are free to keep the service charge separate of course).

In Japan, "all inclusive" (komi komi) is most commonly used to mean inclusive of tax & service, although it can also be used to mean inclusive of other things, such as transportation.

suite2suite

@OsakaWino
Thank you very much for the explanation.

So basically the 13% referred as "Government Tax" by Park Hyatt and "Accommodation Charge" by Grand Hyatt, are not paid to the Government but it is a Service Charge each Property gets to keep.

However Hyatt Regency seems to be doing it differently.
It only showed, as of a year ago, a 10% "Accommodation Charge".
The 5% Consumption Tax was included in the base rate as it is supposed to.

Neither of these Properties use the official name "Consumption Tax" and by using different terminology I had no idea the 13% was a Service Charge.

So starting April 2014, we'll be looking at paying 13 + 8 + 1.04 (13x8%) = 22.04%
Of course since PH and GH increased their Service Charge from 10 to 13 without any notice, nothing prevents them from increasing it again next year to 15 or higher.

What I don't like is by calling it a "Government Tax" as the Park Hyatt calls it, whatever their intent, it is misleading.

OsakaWino

Not sure what is happening in Tokyo. Wonder if the Japan-based hotel chains have also increased their service charge to 13%? Maybe many foreign visitors have no problem with it, and maybe even Tokyo residents are resigned to it, but I can tell you it would come as quite a shock to other Japanese visitors to Tokyo. The 10% service charge at upscale hotels and restaurants has been the standard nationwide for a very, very long time.

Curiously, although Hilton.com is doing the same thing as Hyatt.com, listing rates at Conrad Tokyo excluding tax & service, but Hilton Osaka inclusive, Hilton's Japan website (Hilton.co.jp) lists Conrad Tokyo rates inclusive of tax & service.

The government has reserved the option of delaying the increase in the consumption tax (which is charged on all goods and services, including hotel/restaurant service charges) if it appears that it will excessively dampen the economy. The current schedule is to increase it from the current 5% to 8% from April 2014 and then to 10% from October 2015.

suite2suite

@OsakaWino
I am concerned about misleading information when we're told the amount we have to pay is a "Government Tax" when in actuality it is a Service Charge that the Hotel keeps for itself.

RichardInSF

I just tried a test booking for the Peninsula Tokyo and under terms and conditions it says, "Tax not included. Tokyo accommodations tax (JPY200) per person) per room per night, surcharges and government tax (20.75%)."

This sounds to me like their service charge is 15%! So it can get worse. Four Seasons has also gone to 15%.

Does any of this actually go to the staff?

OsakaWino

I checked Ikkyu.com, one of the largest hotel booking services in Japan, which mostly offers the same rates and packages as the hotels, and both Park Hyatt and Ritz Carlton were both showing all rates inclusive of tax and service. That was also the case on the Japanese site Hilton.co.jp, so it seems that the breakout of tax and service charges is only on the English language (or machine-translated as in Hyatt.com) sites. Hotels.com listed rates exclusive of tax and service for both Tokyo and Osaka.

If Ikkyu.com and other Japanese sites are listing rates inclusive of tax and service, many Japanese might not realize this trend for rising service charges in Tokyo until they see a menu. As I said, it is a significant break from what is considered the norm in Japan.

Looking yesterday I was seeing slightly more correct labeling of the charges, depending on what stage of the reservation process it was being displayed. I did see one page on Hilton.com that listed "tax: 19%", another "tax: 18%", and another "Service charge: 13%, Tax 6%", all incorrect. It is of course illegal to collect "taxes" that are not actually taxes, but anyone who knows Japan knows that at most the hotels will be given a warning to correct the issue.

None of the service charge has ever gone directly to the employees or to anything like an employee pension fund. It has always been merely a way for upscale hotels and restaurants (most hotels, but not that many non-hotel restaurants) to offset the (supposedly? hopefully?) higher wages they pay their staff without having to raise their rates/prices.

The best one could hope for is that if the top hotels in Tokyo are raising their service charges to 13% or 15%, maybe they have raised their staff wages. Wishful thinking at best.

I would postulate that the hotels are simply trying to maximize profits without having to make their rates look less competitive.

mcrw00

If I may (briefly) change the subject, as I'm pretty sure this belongs in the master PHT thread:

I am planning on staying there for my first time next month on a stay certificate, which means I have been booked into a Park King. Besides size and direction of view, does the standard king experience lack in any other significant ways from that of the other rooms (amenities, bathroom, etc.)

Assuming it does, would the PHT staff ever allow a stay cert customer to buy up to a higher level room? I have no status with Hyatt.

hailstorm

I can't say about "ever", but they have not allowed me to do this in the past.

MikeFromTokyo

I have never stayed in one, but have seen a standard room. While the park rooms are adequate, I think it is a no-brainer to pay a bit more for a deluxe room. Deluxe rooms are much more spacious and have better bathrooms, but the price difference is not much.

They will allow you to buy up to a Deluxe or View room, but may or may not offer to confirm this in advance depending on availability. If higher category rooms are available at the time of check-in, this is definitely possible. Your status with Hyatt does not matter.

The Park View category is my favorite, as these are corner rooms with panoramic views from the bedroom and bathroom.

mcrw00

So even if using a stay cert, I would only pay the difference between the rack rate of the park room and deluxe equivalent?

MikeFromTokyo

That is the case with award rooms, so I assume it would be the same for a stay cert.

RichardInSF

Park King rooms are the smallest rooms the hotel offers, even Park Double (same rate class) are larger. I would definitely try to upgrade to Park Deluxe to get the best PHT experience.

mcrw00

How are the bathrooms different?