Originally Posted by kokonutz

Again, though, that feature was baked into FT's DNA by Randy.

Randy himself made discussion of moderation the cardinal sin of FlyerTalk from day one of the moderator corps. His volunteer staff were above reproach. Period.

Randy himself made decisions to ban posters 'for life.'

IMHO, our current Community Director is FAR more tolerant and reasonable than Randy was in terms of allowing discussion of the management of FT. She also does not respond to criticism with rambling overly-defensive posts, but instead directly addresses issues. And she stays engaged, contrasted with Randy's infamous 'seagull management' technique. If you have respectful and candid feedback regarding FT's management I strongly encourage you to PM Carol. It's night and day vs. FT's former management.

I think Randy does an AWESOME job of managing a forum that is lightly visited by dedicated members, like FT was when I joined in 1998 or like MP is today. So it is no wonder he is well loved there now. He's got the personality that is perfect for it. But I suspect if he saw the kind of growth there that he got here that allowed him to sell this place for ~$6 million he'd end up recreating FlyerTalk's mod practices all over again.

Originally Posted by 84fiero

I wasn't really thinking of the issue of moderation specifically, though I know that is often a subject of interest to some folks. It is interesting to hear how it all came about over the years, though. I was't aware that there weren't mods originally.

While I have no doubt the current CD is quite helpful when contacted about things, what I meant was general public discussions about broad issues or areas of FT - sort of like the MP thread and others you see sometimes there.

I suppose the other complicating factor is that Internet Brands controls technical aspects of the site - an area that could use some attention - and TB has no real control over that.

Originally Posted by kokonutz

ROFLMAO! ME apologize for MODERATORS!?!?

That's just funny.

Originally Posted by Canarsie

I will never forget at the Freddie Awards in the Washington, D.C. area several years ago when I attempted to introduce myself to kokonutz how his demeanor towards me suddenly changed dramatically the moment he realized that I was a moderator on FlyerTalk.

We never spoke to each other again since that moment...

Originally Posted by Dovster

How come nobody ever told me that you are a moderator???

Originally Posted by Canarsie

I learned my lesson with kokonutz and did not want to repeat the same scenario with you.

Originally Posted by Dovster

But...but...it would have saved me hours of listening to puns!

Originally Posted by Canarsie

That reason alone was first and foremost to me.

Originally Posted by onthego15

There actually are quite a few people who find great value in Milepoint and who do not find the same in FlyerTalk. I can make this statement with clear authority because I spend lots of time on Milepoint and have read many thousands of posts there. I am NOT trying to say that Milepoint is better than FlyerTalk. That is totally a matter of opinion. It's a simple fact that each meets different needs for different people.
As Randy noted, there is no need to disparage one to boost the other. I find it far more useful to find value in both. They are rather different to me and I get different benefits from each. Personally I prefer Milepoint. Yet, I see value in both and I participate in both.

Originally Posted by oliver2002

Some soul searching is going on: http://milepoint.com/forums/threads/...etersen.72371/

Originally Posted by 84fiero

Well, the soul-searching at MP has ended, and the thread is now some banter between a few folks on unrelated subjects

Actually the thread is representative of many that I've seen there, the actual point of discussion fades out quickly. Which I guess is fun for the core inside group but not so helpful if it's a topic where some good info would be useful.

Originally Posted by Dovster

I am one of those who is doing the banter. I don't really consider myself as part of any "inside group" as it has been at least several months since I posted there.

It is easy enough to get a thread -- any thread -- back on topic by making a serious post. That is true both on FT and MP. The difference is that on FT there is always the possibility that a moderator will delete the bantering (although it was not done to the banter between Canarsie and me here) while on MP that is a very rare step.

Originally Posted by ma91pmh

My experience with FT has been pretty good because a) I am generally thick skinned, and b) I actually do search myself first and often find without asking. Indeed I would like to think I have answered many more questions than I've asked here. But I do get very saddened by the way newbies get treated. In particular I find by relative other newbies. I see people with join dates of 12 months ago who know a little smack down others. Very sad. This is what drives traffic to blogs where bloggers have an incentive to help all and sundry.

Sounds like we share the same views on moderation. I don't think moderation works on a macro scale like North Korea any more than it does on a micro scale like here, and just drives the conversation elsewhere. Sure things can get ugly but that's a reflection of human behavior. I prefer to see it warts and all. Everything you guys wanted this EMRP forum to be for example has ended up on TBB because he lets people do no holds barred criticism of bloggers, not the watered down stuff you have to have here

Originally Posted by Canarsie

I find the very thought of kokonutz apologizing for moderators hilarious and ludicrous as well, based on personal experience.

I will never forget at the Freddie Awards in the Washington, D.C. area several years ago when I attempted to introduce myself to kokonutz how his demeanor towards me suddenly changed dramatically the moment he realized that I was a moderator on FlyerTalk.

We never spoke to each other again since that moment...

Originally Posted by kokonutz

MP is a little club. Kind of like Kiwanas. They play games, get together, and take great pride in doing fundraisers and 'good works.' But they are not very useful for the points and miles game.

FT, otoh, is a library. As such there are rules and some harsh librarians shushing people. But at the end of the day it's a damn useful tool where you can learn a hell of a lot and have your questions answered in about 2 minutes.

Clubs are more fun, and folks have a sense of pride and ownership of it. You can see that sense of pride, ownership and defensiveness in that thread. And that depth of loyalty is the one big thing that MP has going for it. Their members will buy just about anything they sell (well, Wall&Main may have been a bridge too far even for the MP members...and the *MEGADO is apparently reaching saturation point). That also means MP will never be as 'big' as FT. And it means they have to do things like the FTEF events and the add-on premium memberships to keep their members engaged and interested, and the business making money. Just like a club has to do fundraisers and spaghetti dinners and offer membership benefits beyond just what they can find in the forum itself. It's smart because it plays to the MP's strength: relatively few members with relatively deep loyalty.

There is a place for both, of course. But the notion that MP could ever 'compete' with FT is silly.

Originally Posted by yerffej201

But why I'm at FT is primarily for two reasons:
- there is significantly more content. if you look at the hotel threads, the aeroplan mini-rtw threads, there's a lot more info if you lurk.
- there's more people. so the replies are faster. this is probably the reason i'm at ft, i don't like waiting lol!