Kagehitokiri

you are making an assumption about intended task.

kokonutz

Indeed, according to Randy, he had no intention of creating another IBB. But he was talked into it by Gary, Tommy and Ed: http://milepoint.com/forums/threads/...-5#post-442649 (and please do click on that link to give our MP friends some much-needed clicks!!!!)

It's impossible to say what those three had in mind when they approached Randy about starting a new IBB, but they have insisted ever since it started that there is plenty of room in the points and miles space for multiple IBBs.

ma91pmh

You would have to be insanely naive (and that is a much more lenient expression than I'd use if this were a face to face or Facebook discussion where I didn't have to worry about moderators) to think MP is anything other than an attempt to replicate FT

eponymous_coward

It's not an exact clone of FT and never was. FT doesn't have paid memberships, likes, and a number of other features MP has. The FT governance structure doesn't exist over there. I could go on.

Given that your first premise doesn't seem to be valid, your other premises don't follow.

That seems reasonable to me. It seems to me that MP feeds into their rubber chicken seminar circuit, blogs, and Kiva/charity efforts as well.

ma91pmh

Yeah right, a few minor tweaks to make it look a bit different. Like it's a duck with a hairdo. It's still a duck. And the only reason anyone paid a dime to join is for the points benefits, that could have been achieved anywhere. And it doesn't need moderation because there is no discussion lol

eponymous_coward

(emphasis added)

Your original assertion was "replace", basically assuming a zero-sum game (FT has to win or lose, MP has to win or lose). Why do you assume that? Or are you asserting that they are out to "replicate" FT?

In that case, naturally a forum meant to discuss frequent flyer programs, manufactured spend and so on is going to have overlap in discussion topics and format (I mean, really, how would you expect them to be radically different when they are talking about many of the same topics?), and neither FT nor MP has to win or lose, it's not a zero-sum game. So your argument of "hey, they should shut it down because they aren't as big as FT" doesn't really follow if it's not a zero-sum game. Everyone can win. From what I've gathered talking to Randy myself, that's probably how he sees it.

So why isn't it? I'd probably give cash to FT if they offered benefits like MP did. Yet they don't.

You seem awfully invested in trashing MP's business model. So, you think IB is doing this all out of the kindness of their heart, as opposed to that evil blackguard Randy Petersen and his henchmen, who should shut their thing down because of reasons, and leave FT alone?

tom911

It may be, minus the "volunteer member moderators". That's one feature I like over there.

ma91pmh

You are digging into semantics... and I am not at all invested... I just think the site has failed to garner any serious traction so why bother? I mean bully for you if you like it by all means stick with it... but looks by all accounts you are mostly going to be talking to yourself over there or at best having a fraction of the conversation that occurs over here.

ma91pmh

they added moderators?


that is the one thing i hate about FT

i prefer real life or at least facebook where I can say what the F I want without worrying about it being removed or cut up. those that know me in real life know i don't tend to mince my words

eponymous_coward

Well, they're still doing their seminars and selling memberships, so I would dispute the "garner any serious traction" part.

Kagehitokiri

ma91pmh, you make a lot of assumptions.

you care enough about MP to say it should be shut down because it is a failure.

personally, i dont care about any sites other than flyertalk.
numbers are data. i have added data to existing discussions.

ma91pmh

the guys behind this have several other related enterprises that are far more successful .... I would say the traction comes from those quarters. Like I say nobody buys the membership because they actually want to be a member. I paid twice and it was 100% for the side benefits and 0% for the forum. MP as a standalone entity for the discussion of miles and points is IMHO a failure, and a failure in particular for that said group of people to try and redirect the discussion from here to a site they control and have a financial interest in. I fully recognize they have had immense success elsewhere, notably Boardingarea

kokonutz

There is plenty to 'like' about the MP platform and management. (pun clearly intended)

I do think that the 4 co-founders sincerely thought they had a better mousetrap with the newer software platform.

According to co-founder Gary Leff, the value proposition for MP was "bringing live chats with heads of programs to members, sponsoring frequent flyer activities, supporting the charitable efforts of members (the Kiva team on Milepoint has lent out over $1 million! the site has donated thousands to Komen, etc)… plus the effort to build a friendly and welcoming community."

According to co-founder Randy Petersen, here was the value proposition:

"• Milepoint was able to start with a newer technology platform, while FlyerTalk, with its millions of users and gigantic archive, is less nimble and has to retool to make changes.
• Milepoint is easier to search and often displays newer threads than FlyerTalk, which sometimes answers queries with threads from 2007.
• While FlyerTalk enables you to subscribe to a thread and receive e-mail notifications instantly, daily or weekly when someone replies to the thread, Milepoint, which also has e-mail notifications, goes a step further. It optionally displays a red flag above "Alerts" on the top right of the page when someone updates the discussion.
• With its massive community, FlyerTalk defined "social media" before anyone knew the term. But Milepoint has become a bit more social, installing a "like" button. This enables users to highlight useful posts and Milepoint to show the most relevant content as judged by the crowd."

But, for me, their management stumbled badly out of the gate with a lack of transparency that left me cold (as the linked thread spells out). You never get a second chance to make a first impression and all that.

The fact is that there have been several attempts to replicate/improve upon FlyerTalk. Most fail. I was involved with one in 2005 or 2006 or so (moremiles.org) that petered out (the idea was FT without oppressive moderators).

But none have had Randy and his resources behind them.

In the end, the market decides.

tom911

Paid members of the staff deal with moderation when needed. Also, they tend not to have megathreads there which is a feature that detracts from FT. Moderators here spend a lot time moving posts and adding to those massive threads which can have thousands of posts (and which I find completely useless when they get that big).

tom911

Another iPad giveaway won't hurt, either.