Consolidated "Michelin Restaurants" thread
Dec 28, 2018, 5:18 am
#1516
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Dec 28, 2018, 8:59 am
#1517
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At the Michelin level, I must say we’ve not noticed much difference in timing for any set menus or a la carte meals between Europe and America.
Dec 28, 2018, 12:31 pm
#1518
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 167
Last weekend, had our annual culinary extravaganza in SF with dinner at 1* Mourad, dinner at 2* Californios, lunch at 1* In Situ, and dinner at newly minted 3* Atelier Crenn (preceded by a round of drinks at 1* Bar Crenn).
Mourad—a staple favorite of ours in the city, but this night suffered from poor service.
In Situ—another staple favorite of ours, though we miss Oops, I Dropped the Lemon Tart from Osteria Fransescana.
Californios—wow, a truly wonderful addition and new favorite. Truly impressive Mexican offering, right up with our best meals at Taco Maria in Costa Mesa and Pujol, Biko, and Quintonil in Mexico City. Very fun and enthusiastic team, to boot. And a steal at $341 total for 2 tasting menus with wine pairings!
Atelier Crenn—wow, wow, wow. First time back since renovation and it’s even better. More drama. More chic. But the creativity and deliciousness on the plate is as impressive as it ever was. Service still flawless, yet with an informal ease that belies its impressiveness. Some of the best avant garde food we’ve had since our last time here or at Alinea or Noma. Easily worthy of its 3rd star.
Not a month ago, I also had the chance to dine at 3* SingleThread (well, it was the night before it received its 3rd star). Extremely impressive kaiseki inspired dinner, definitely worthy of its 3rd star and reminiscent of the finest kaiseki we enjoyed in Japan only in May.
Mourad—a staple favorite of ours in the city, but this night suffered from poor service.
In Situ—another staple favorite of ours, though we miss Oops, I Dropped the Lemon Tart from Osteria Fransescana.
Californios—wow, a truly wonderful addition and new favorite. Truly impressive Mexican offering, right up with our best meals at Taco Maria in Costa Mesa and Pujol, Biko, and Quintonil in Mexico City. Very fun and enthusiastic team, to boot. And a steal at $341 total for 2 tasting menus with wine pairings!
Atelier Crenn—wow, wow, wow. First time back since renovation and it’s even better. More drama. More chic. But the creativity and deliciousness on the plate is as impressive as it ever was. Service still flawless, yet with an informal ease that belies its impressiveness. Some of the best avant garde food we’ve had since our last time here or at Alinea or Noma. Easily worthy of its 3rd star.
Not a month ago, I also had the chance to dine at 3* SingleThread (well, it was the night before it received its 3rd star). Extremely impressive kaiseki inspired dinner, definitely worthy of its 3rd star and reminiscent of the finest kaiseki we enjoyed in Japan only in May.
I'm also a huge fan of In Situ! Last time I was there, I had Oops, I Dropped the Lemon Tart and it was just as amazing as it is straight from Bottura's kitchen in Modena.
Dec 28, 2018, 2:37 pm
#1519
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I wouldn´t wonder if there is a trend for longer meals. If someone pays 500 $ or so per person I would fully understand if 90 minutes are not what you expect.
Dec 28, 2018, 2:54 pm
#1520
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I started a summary thread to list the highs and lows of our Michelin/San Pellegrino level fine dining year for anyone interested. I’d love to see what people see as their best and worst fine dining experiences for the year.
2018 Michelin/Pellegrino Level Restaurant Highs and Lows
2018 Michelin/Pellegrino Level Restaurant Highs and Lows
Dec 29, 2018, 3:10 am
#1521
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 442
It really depends in my experience. Restaurants like Per Se serve their meals in 3 hours, Daniel offers 3 seatings for Dinner and our Tasting Menu were done in 90 minutes.
I wouldn´t wonder if there is a trend for longer meals. If someone pays 500 $ or so per person I would fully understand if 90 minutes are not what you expect.
I wouldn´t wonder if there is a trend for longer meals. If someone pays 500 $ or so per person I would fully understand if 90 minutes are not what you expect.
3+ hour meals in Tokyo are especially difficult because they keep their thermostats quite warm.
Dec 29, 2018, 9:07 am
#1522
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Dec 29, 2018, 12:42 pm
#1523
Join Date: Jul 2015
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I'm from New York and I adore leisurely, slow-paced meals when at a fine dining restaurant.
I had a fabulous meal at Azurmendi in Bilbao but the whole tasting menu with wine pairings including the intro in the sunroom was all of 90 minutes max. I had not time to relax or digest or drink my wine! Within seconds of finishing a course the next would be brought out. Made the meal hard to enjoy.
I had a fabulous meal at Azurmendi in Bilbao but the whole tasting menu with wine pairings including the intro in the sunroom was all of 90 minutes max. I had not time to relax or digest or drink my wine! Within seconds of finishing a course the next would be brought out. Made the meal hard to enjoy.
Dec 30, 2018, 8:10 am
#1524
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 85
I'm from New York and I adore leisurely, slow-paced meals when at a fine dining restaurant.
I had a fabulous meal at Azurmendi in Bilbao but the whole tasting menu with wine pairings including the intro in the sunroom was all of 90 minutes max. I had not time to relax or digest or drink my wine! Within seconds of finishing a course the next would be brought out. Made the meal hard to enjoy.
I had a fabulous meal at Azurmendi in Bilbao but the whole tasting menu with wine pairings including the intro in the sunroom was all of 90 minutes max. I had not time to relax or digest or drink my wine! Within seconds of finishing a course the next would be brought out. Made the meal hard to enjoy.
Jan 3, 2019, 2:38 am
#1525
Join Date: Mar 2015
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My Tokyo Michelin visits this time around:
-Ryo (1 star, unagi): incredibly good. The eel is cooked with such painstaking care and attention, and it is delicious. Mixed in are a few non-eel courses (e.g. tempura). Very pricey but love the food, love the vibe. The sake pairing was delicious.
-Sushi Shin (1 star, sushi): very good but not the best sushi I have had by any stretch. Some very delicious pieces (anago, uni, the infamous shirako), but others (shad, clam sashimi, tuna) seemed dry / not as fresh. Would be willing to revisit but a tad underwhelmed.
-Ginza Okuda (1 star, kaiseki): had a special New Year's Day tasting menu. Very good, particularly the Kobe beef. Kind of pricey given it was only 6-7 courses in total, but I would probably return nonetheless. I enjoyed the drink pairing, which included sake and wine. My wife's nonalcoholic pairing was arguably even better.
Next up for us will be Benu in SF in a couple weeks - really looking forward to that.
Jan 7, 2019, 12:22 pm
#1526
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,028
It really depends in my experience. Restaurants like Per Se serve their meals in 3 hours, Daniel offers 3 seatings for Dinner and our Tasting Menu were done in 90 minutes.
I wouldn´t wonder if there is a trend for longer meals. If someone pays 500 $ or so per person I would fully understand if 90 minutes are not what you expect.
I wouldn´t wonder if there is a trend for longer meals. If someone pays 500 $ or so per person I would fully understand if 90 minutes are not what you expect.
Jan 7, 2019, 12:50 pm
#1527
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In the last year, I’ve had some very long meals—but with excellent pacing—at many * restaurants that have extensive tasting menus in both America and Europe, as well as Asia. A long tasting menu is more than fine with us as long as there isn’t more than a 5 min or so break between courses (and the courses are sized appropriately, as well). Anything beyond 10 min between courses usually elicits my speaking to a manager.
The worst culprit for timing and overall service this year for us unquestioned was 3* Hajime in Osaka: a true disaster in timing and service if ever there was one. So shocking that it clearly doesn’t deserve 3* as a result. (And yet, the food was absolutely sublime and most worthy of 3*.)
Of course, the biggest disappointment for us for a menu going too quickly was 2* Aragawa in Kobe. I think we may have been done in a about an hour. Talk about totally underwhelming, even if the beef was outstanding.
The worst culprit for timing and overall service this year for us unquestioned was 3* Hajime in Osaka: a true disaster in timing and service if ever there was one. So shocking that it clearly doesn’t deserve 3* as a result. (And yet, the food was absolutely sublime and most worthy of 3*.)
Of course, the biggest disappointment for us for a menu going too quickly was 2* Aragawa in Kobe. I think we may have been done in a about an hour. Talk about totally underwhelming, even if the beef was outstanding.
Jan 7, 2019, 1:23 pm
#1528
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. To be fair I never stop time, so if I count 8 courses, 10 minutes between each and 5 minutes between each to eat it´s not that fast. Next time I will take time
Last edited by iluv2fly; Jan 8, 2019 at 1:59 am Reason: merge
Jan 7, 2019, 1:32 pm
#1529
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5 minutes and depending on course perhaps even 10 would let me wonna talk to the manager but for a completely different reason. To be fair I never stop time, so if I count 8 courses, 10 minutes between each and 5 minutes between each to eat it´s not that fast. Next time I will take time
. To be fair I never stop time, so if I count 8 courses, 10 minutes between each and 5 minutes between each to eat it´s not that fast. Next time I will take time
Jan 7, 2019, 2:02 pm
#1530
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We do a lot of tasting menus and for us the good ones have the 'snacks' at the beginning coming reasonably quickly and the spacing between dishes increases as you get deeper into the progression and especially between the main proteins. More so if they are pairing wines across two courses or less lest you end up with a table littered with half finished pours.
Of course, it has something to do with the chef, but I suspect there's a cultural element as well. Just like portion sizes vary by locale, so can the speed of consumption. Some people just like to eat quickly while we like to savour our food, have a pleasant conversation and otherwise enjoy the craft of the chef. The 'best' restaurants get this and adjust the service pacing to match their patrons seamlessly. Other places need a gentle reminder.
Case in point - we pushed back a little at the service pacing on our first visit to Le Calandre. About three minutes later Chef Alajmo came to our table, asked if everything was fine and said he had no problem adjusting the pace of the service. In fact he seemed pleased as he lamented that some diners seem to just want to rush through their meals. He joined us after dessert and we chatted about other restaurants we had visited on that trip.
But in the end, it's up to personal taste and we each have our own standards of how quickly we like to eat and the 'right' way to run a service. And a great restaurant can keep us all happy.
