Consolidated "Champagne - Questions/Suggestions/Recommendations" thread
Jun 30, 2009 | 6:21 pm
#301
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That would make for than 8% of all Champagne bad on delivery. I suggest to you this is not believable.
Jun 30, 2009 | 6:40 pm
#302
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asking around with folks who've been in the business for a long time, personal experiences over a decade or so selling/tasting wines. it varies with each case but it seems that about one out of twelve bottles has a flawed cork.
Jun 30, 2009 | 6:43 pm
#303
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You'd be wrong. Try opening a few hundred bottles of any wine, sparkling or still, and see what you come up with. Better yet, try opening thousands of bottles and see what you come up with. You might learn something. ^
Jun 30, 2009 | 8:42 pm
#304
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Wirelessly posted (Palm TX: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; PalmSource/Palm-D050; Blazer/4.3) 16;320x448)
I have to agree that implying a 12% corked wine/champagne rate as normal or usual is absurd.
I have to agree that implying a 12% corked wine/champagne rate as normal or usual is absurd.
Jul 1, 2009 | 3:41 am
#306
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Your perception of how many bottles are corked probably depends on your
sensitivity to TCA. A decade ago a friend of mine, a former chef and critic,
told me that he thought the standard estimate of 5-10% was way too high.
But further investigation showed that he was relatively insensitive to that
particular scent, either that or was used to it. In my experience, probably
close on 10% are corked, but many of those are potable anyway.
sensitivity to TCA. A decade ago a friend of mine, a former chef and critic,
told me that he thought the standard estimate of 5-10% was way too high.
But further investigation showed that he was relatively insensitive to that
particular scent, either that or was used to it. In my experience, probably
close on 10% are corked, but many of those are potable anyway.
Jul 1, 2009 | 4:57 am
#307
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Ruinart
About 12 years ago I was fortunate to be at the Ruinart Champagne Chateau in Rheims.
My company (Conference A/V) was doing all the technical side of the launch of a new range of products from Hoover, and the press launch was being held there.
Unfortunately we were there for 4 days and had to suffer champagne with all our meals (lunch / dinner). Inevitably upon leaving a small quantity was purchased at a discount, 6 bottles for 360 (including discount).
I celebrated my 60th last week by opening 1 of the last 2 I had left, and it was absolutely fantastic.
Can't wait 'til the missus get to 60 to open the other one.
Happy memories.
My company (Conference A/V) was doing all the technical side of the launch of a new range of products from Hoover, and the press launch was being held there.
Unfortunately we were there for 4 days and had to suffer champagne with all our meals (lunch / dinner). Inevitably upon leaving a small quantity was purchased at a discount, 6 bottles for 360 (including discount).
I celebrated my 60th last week by opening 1 of the last 2 I had left, and it was absolutely fantastic.
Can't wait 'til the missus get to 60 to open the other one.
Happy memories.
Jul 1, 2009 | 6:05 am
#308
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Jul 1, 2009 | 6:35 am
#309
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i bought 4 cases of champagne from a coop a few years back. all bottles had a tca problem. this most probably came from a cellar problem, not a cork problem.
Jul 1, 2009 | 7:14 am
#310
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I'm always unsure of what a "flawed cork" is, so I'm not sure that all the potentially bad corks lead to a bad wine experience. The flaw may or may not be in a place that leads to a problem, or the wine might not be in the bottle long enough for the problem to manifest, etc. But the point is bad bottles are out there, and if you drink wine regularly, you will run across them. My own rate of clearly bad bottles is 1-2%, but most of the wine I buy is inexpensive and drunk soon after bottling.
My last bad bottle was "corked", but had a glass stopper and rubber gasket.
My last bad bottle was "corked", but had a glass stopper and rubber gasket.
Jul 1, 2009 | 3:34 pm
#311
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But there is a HUGE difference between 12% and 8%.... or?
In my experience, the average TCA problem is close to 3% - but this is just my own observation. No scientific methodology used.... Im sure there is plenty of literature that will say both a larger and smaller number.
And yes... TCA is not only a stopper related issue.... TCA taint at the production facility (in diverse areas) can be the culprit. In theory, with modern wine production facilities (and up-to-date best practice procedures) this should not be a problem... but this does not mean it doesnt happen.
Last edited by cblaisd; Jul 1, 2009 at 4:05 pm Reason: Consolidated poster's three consecutive posts
Jul 1, 2009 | 4:13 pm
#312
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Agree !!! ^
But there is a HUGE difference between 12% and 8%.... or?
In my experience, the average TCA problem is close to 3% - but this is just my own observation. No scientific methodology used.... Im sure there is plenty of literature that will say both a larger and smaller number.
And yes... TCA is not only a stopper related issue.... TCA taint at the production facility (in diverse areas) can be the culprit. In theory, with modern wine production facilities (and up-to-date best practice procedures) this should not be a problem... but this does not mean it doesnt happen.
But there is a HUGE difference between 12% and 8%.... or?
In my experience, the average TCA problem is close to 3% - but this is just my own observation. No scientific methodology used.... Im sure there is plenty of literature that will say both a larger and smaller number.
And yes... TCA is not only a stopper related issue.... TCA taint at the production facility (in diverse areas) can be the culprit. In theory, with modern wine production facilities (and up-to-date best practice procedures) this should not be a problem... but this does not mean it doesnt happen.
Jul 8, 2009 | 8:55 am
#313
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Cork and Champagne is further complicated by the issue of natural acidity. My experience as a Wine Merchant has shown me that some Houses of Champagne have a natural acidity that is hard to tolerate for some palates. It more common that most think to find folks that think that a glass of Krug comes from a spoiler or "corked" bottle because if its natural acidity.... the same can be said of wines of other houses that have similar styles in some of their wines... one example that comes to mind is Lanson.
For palates that are accustomed to new world sparklers, most of which have basically no noticeable acidity... many of these Champagnes are simply not understood.
For palates that are accustomed to new world sparklers, most of which have basically no noticeable acidity... many of these Champagnes are simply not understood.
Jul 8, 2009 | 10:38 am
#314
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This is hardly scientific evidence, but of the approximately 100 bottles of champagne I've had in the last 4-5 years, none have been noticeable corked (or spoiled in any other way). If the average rate really is 8 %, I must be a really lucky SOB.
In still wines, this figure sounds a bit more likely, although still pretty high.
Cheers,
T.
In still wines, this figure sounds a bit more likely, although still pretty high.
Cheers,
T.
Jul 8, 2009 | 11:28 am
#315
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you're very right about dom, it is a 60/40. krug Clos du Mesnil Blanc de Blancs vintage is chard. i do not do the mega buck labels, and certainly did not realize that dom was just a pinot blend. i find that to be hilarious. here i thought it so vvvvvvvveeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry special.
note:i have only drunk gifted dom. and with my attitude, not many people have often given me a bottle.
i have been able to acquire therry thiese(sp?) champ, which is small grower stuff. no label, good wine. keep Parker away.
note:i have only drunk gifted dom. and with my attitude, not many people have often given me a bottle.
i have been able to acquire therry thiese(sp?) champ, which is small grower stuff. no label, good wine. keep Parker away.
The only houses that I can recall that produce exclusively BdB are Salon, Claude Carr, and a few small specialists in Le Mesnil-sur-Oger (e.g. Francois Girard or Guy Charlemagne). There are a few BdB prestige cuvees (e.g. Taittinger and Ruinart) but most of even those are blends.
The notion that BdB champagnes are somehow superior to red/white blends is patently absurd (to claim the opposite is absurd, as well). The grape choice is a matter of house style, location, wine style, and winemaker intent.
Cheers,
T.