DL Diamond still best in class??
Sep 3, 2009, 7:21 pm
#106
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Beverly Hills, CA
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, UA-PE, AA
Posts: 1,074
BTW, in 2006-2007 I used to buy M once in while for TATL. But today the ratio of M-fare to sLUT is so high that I cannot justify it. Today I feel that K is closer to where the old M was.
Sep 3, 2009, 7:27 pm
#107
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: check swarm
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, SPG/Bonvoid LT Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, $tarbucks Titanium
Posts: 14,404
If DL SkyMiles management were to have the courage to admit the failing of its ways in recent times, it would be quite easy to make adjustments such that DL Diamond would be worth enough to entice more people to go for DL Diamond with their MQM activity this year rather than having Platinums consider stopping short of 125k.
It may even be sufficient if DL were to just adopt the NW Elite ExtraPerks program from years past.
It may even be sufficient if DL were to just adopt the NW Elite ExtraPerks program from years past.
Sep 3, 2009, 7:29 pm
#108
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hopefully on a plane...
Posts: 6,580
The only thing that I am trying to point out is that DL is VERY close to a REALLY great program. The Faux Pas was not giving people a compelling reason to keep going beyond DM. That stalls everything right back to Silver and causes people to make decisions that actually move money away from DL.
There is incentive to get to plat... but NOT ENOUGH incentive to get to DM. Once you've hit DM, there's little to no incentive to stop flying DL with the rollover miles.
If I was sitting at 120K, I would take the rollover miles and not worry about reqaulifying for PM the next year. However, the benefit of DM isn't great enough.
Though I like the $300 savings of getting free CRC and the ability to pick my reward(s) I don't think that I will be paying for M+ fares for vacation. I'll just go ahead and burn miles and will do that because I don't have to worry about requalifying because of rollover miles. I, however, don't see myself moving to another airline because of the BIS Y miles required to hit EXP with AA (they won't match).
Sep 3, 2009, 7:30 pm
#109
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
I agree and we are in the same boat. My point was that even for the "cheap flyer" the FF program and ability to upgrade with miles/PMU's actually does draw a little more cash out of the victim. FF programs do work and the point the poster was making was that they are losers for the Airlines. I would argue that DL could add NW style SWU's at 125/160/200K and pull back, just slightly, availability in the same seats they would offer for full award tickets or UG's to J and take a very small $$ hit for a strategy that would keep DL flyers on DL the entire year. I don't buy the the idea that they can not do it without losing their shirts...I think they miscalculated the approach.
Sep 3, 2009, 7:35 pm
#110
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: DL AA UA
Posts: 2,359
Me too, and I've never been elite on NW. However, I don't think it is going to happen with this group. First, no one likes to admit that they are wrong. Second, the economic downturn provides a great deal of cover to the loyalty program's missteps in regards to the roll out of the DM program. Just look around the other forums and see the number of PMs inquiring about status matches. The harm done won't show for several months as some of these pax will continue to fly what has been booked on DL. Also, DL has no way of knowing how may of its elites are status matching to OALs v. the known number of OALs elites status matching into Skymiles.
I think a great deal of my disappointment is that when I knew DM was coming, I was hoping for something truely first class. After conversations in person with the leaders who shaped the program, I had even expected DM to be a great program. No doubt, there is some good in the DM program, however, it clearly is far from being the best higest tier program.
DL had the chance to lead like Jeff Robertson said they would. Instead, they issued a program that they had to know was lacking. As an admitted DL fan, DL deserved better and its FFers deserved better.
I think a great deal of my disappointment is that when I knew DM was coming, I was hoping for something truely first class. After conversations in person with the leaders who shaped the program, I had even expected DM to be a great program. No doubt, there is some good in the DM program, however, it clearly is far from being the best higest tier program.
DL had the chance to lead like Jeff Robertson said they would. Instead, they issued a program that they had to know was lacking. As an admitted DL fan, DL deserved better and its FFers deserved better.
Sep 3, 2009, 7:41 pm
#111
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
I actually agree with you on the first part... they are very close to having a great program but disagree with the second point.
There is incentive to get to plat... but NOT ENOUGH incentive to get to DM. Once you've hit DM, there's little to no incentive to stop flying DL with the rollover miles.
If I was sitting at 120K, I would take the rollover miles and not worry about reqaulifying for PM the next year. However, the benefit of DM isn't great enough.
Though I like the $300 savings of getting free CRC and the ability to pick my reward(s) I don't think that I will be paying for M+ fares for vacation. I'll just go ahead and burn miles and will do that because I don't have to worry about requalifying because of rollover miles. I, however, don't see myself moving to another airline because of the BIS Y miles required to hit EXP with AA (they won't match).
There is incentive to get to plat... but NOT ENOUGH incentive to get to DM. Once you've hit DM, there's little to no incentive to stop flying DL with the rollover miles.
If I was sitting at 120K, I would take the rollover miles and not worry about reqaulifying for PM the next year. However, the benefit of DM isn't great enough.
Though I like the $300 savings of getting free CRC and the ability to pick my reward(s) I don't think that I will be paying for M+ fares for vacation. I'll just go ahead and burn miles and will do that because I don't have to worry about requalifying because of rollover miles. I, however, don't see myself moving to another airline because of the BIS Y miles required to hit EXP with AA (they won't match).
Sep 3, 2009, 8:10 pm
#112
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
Granted that DL largely just matched the competition in this aspect, but this is also an area that could use some thought.
Sep 3, 2009, 8:26 pm
#113
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hopefully on a plane...
Posts: 6,580
I would agree with you. At a place like OKC (all RJ) where it's RJ everywhere, the difference upgrade wise from GM to PM doesn't matter. At that point, I would be finding the CHEAPEST and most CONVENIENT.
Sep 3, 2009, 8:29 pm
#114
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hopefully on a plane...
Posts: 6,580
That is actually a great point and one I missed because I am interjecting my personal situation which is different than most. You are spot on for the vast majority of flyers. The issue is between Plat and DM for the most part. There is another angle around locking in for 2 years at a level you are comfortable with post DM and then trying out another AL to see if you like it. The reality is you could match or challenge anyway but I just see this as an opening for the competition for the uber flyers that are 200K+ looking strictly from a marketing standpoint.
AA doesn't allow any challenges or matches to EXP... (or if they do, please let me know).
Sep 3, 2009, 8:33 pm
#115
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
Sep 3, 2009, 8:41 pm
#116
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA, USA NW Platinum Elite Since 1999, United GoldMM, Hyatt Plat, SPG Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz #1 Gold, IC Ambassador, Avis Chairman's
Posts: 7,445
Took em long enuff... CO has been doing this for what over 4 years now... they get it! Just ask Mersk862...
Actually... this idea (rollover) came from one of the marketing folks at NW... they just didn't implement it last year...
Sep 3, 2009, 9:01 pm
#117
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Programs: United 1K 2009, DL Diamond 2010, Hilton Diamond and Marriott Gold 2010
Posts: 111
50% mileage bonus on Y/B/M makes Delta #1
Seriously - for those frequent business travelers buying y/b/m tickets - this is a no brainer. DL's program gives you 50% more actual miles than UA/AA. This is a huge benefit and equates to an enormous amount of miles for those of us at Diamond level.
Sep 4, 2009, 7:41 am
#118
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MN
Programs: Lots of programs, dirt on all of them!
Posts: 11,938
Most people would rather save the couple thousand $$ to buy K fares and put the difference in the bank - the cash would be worth WAY more than the 50% mileage bonus.
Sep 4, 2009, 7:44 am
#119
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: Delta DM, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, MTA Rust, Hertz Five Star something or other
Posts: 2,858
Most leisure travelers. But if your company absolutely didn't care whether it was a YBM or K..which would you pick?
Sep 4, 2009, 7:54 am
#120
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
Those companies are become few and far between. Most are going to lowest fare +/- 10% for domestic. That said, many companies compromise on M/B fares if they are for INT flights and upgradable...that is actually a positive thing as the employees can go Biz but the company can eliminate full paid biz. I know I worked for a company that started to pay attention to booking class (I was the one who pushed it) and saved several million dollars of pure bottom line. The companies who don't care are still out there but not nearly what it once was. There are few things that are as purely wasteful to a balance sheet as premium travel. It has very little ROI, it is a point in time purchase with no residual value, and it adds up really quick.