DiverDave

It is worth noting that 125K on Delta is not necessarily equal to 125K on AA.

If you have a flier who logs 50K with el cheapo fares and 50K of YBM or F class, that will yield 125K MQMs with Delta.

As I read the AA program, that will get you 100K qualifying miles under either of AA's formulaas (actual BIS miles or miles weighted by class of service at the 50%, 100%, 150% levels.)

Not a huge difference in most cases, but still worth noting....

David

g50

Delta has stated that DM will have better award availability.

GUWonder

Given what DL management's implementation of the 3-tier award pricing structure has meant for "better award availability" for Platinums (i.e. more expensive awards), DL's statements of the above kind of nature don't inspire confidence that DL management's idea of "better award availability" means DL award tickets will be cheaper than what the competition offers.

wanaflyforless

I have spent 100+ hours looking for DL lowest level transatlantic seats and 100+ hours looking for AA lowest level tranatlantic seats. My searches generally have me looking at EVERY transatlic flight an airline flies over a few days to determine all available options.

In my experience, the liklihood of any given AA flight having said seats is about 3X that of DL.

While this is one single route, and alone means nothing, here is one fact: On two occassions, I scanned the entire year (330 days out) looking for ONE lowest level DL seat in business class on the non-stop ATL-BOM flight. On both occassions, neither Delta.com nor live phone agents could find a single saver DL seats all year long. This is on a route that DL has now discontinued because of lack of business demand; even though DL wasn't selling business they would not release one 120K level award inventory at all for any day any month; only 230K level. This situation has never existed on AA ORD-DEL. With a year of flexibility, you can ALWAYS find something on AA, especially really close in or far out. Just one example.

mdb

Domestically only.

GTITAN

Thanks all! Will edit my post to so reflect!

redtailshark

After yesterday's calls for "evidence" regarding the SM dysfunctionality, I decided to investigate further.

Method: I took the next potential Shark family vacation need (this is after the Christmas one, in which you'll recall I demonstrated that the DL SM were 4.9 times less valuable than OP miles, and Deltified NW miles were 5.5 times less valuable).

FCO-TUS, May 10-24th. Dates set by other constraints. 2 pax. Default search performed.

CO: 100k + $103, a number of itins available at this level. (150k for 1-way J).
NW (Deltified): 250k + ? (inc. CO legs; what happens Oct 25th?)
DL: UNAVAILABLE despite the award tool initially claiming 180k + $614.
AA: 180k + indeterminate taxes/fees
UA: 220k + indeterminate taxes/fees
US: "cannot redeem online"

If anyone has AA/UA balances that would allow the taxes and fees to be viewed, it would be interesting to populate the comparison table fully.

It's very clear that DL is overwhelmingly - infinitely - worse than all the competition except US. Although I can't immediately provide a taxes/fees quote from UA/AA (because I don't have a MP account and no password for my AA account) it doesn't matter because DL (and US) can't offer anything.

DL is clearly worse than US, however, because unlike US, DL.COM initially states that there is availability and itemizes a total cost, showing the outbound sector and leading customers to believe that such product is actually available before not making the product available, at all. That's bait and switch.

This is worse, much worse, than before (assuming UA and AA will actually ticket the itins that showed on screen).

Perform the math and we see that CO, UA and AA are all INFINITELY higher performing than DL, although CO's "infinitely better" is categorically better than either UA or AA.

Why are people surprised that there is such strength of feeling on this? It totally and completely undermines the value of SM, and therefore, of any and all tiers of corresponding elite membership.

This performance cannot even be described ironically as "best in class." It is, factually and indubitably, WORST IN CLASS. Data will out.

So, then, why do so many of the users have this same problem? Why is this acceptable to the customers when everyone else does it better? And exactly how can the fiction of "best in class" be presented in the face of such evidence of awful performance?

DP-340

The main difference is the AMEX card. On AA you do not get EQM with their credit card, whereas I know a small business owner who gets 50k MQM per year (20k on his personal DL-AMEX-Plat and 30k on his Business AMEX-Reserve).

thepointsguy

I think you are beating a dead horse here. We all know the foreign origination surcharge is bogus, however few here are subjected by it. If you are so hard set on using "data" to prove the value of Skymiles, why do you continuously use foreign originating itineraries as your evidence? I just think your points would be more valid with less ranting (i.e. using words like INFINITELY!!) and more stable analysis.

MikeMpls

Perhaps if you had paid more attention to his post, you would have noticed that the critical word with regard to Delta was UNAVAILABLE, not the amount of the hideous foreign origination surcharge.

Many more people originate flights in Europe than you seem to think, e.g. we are flying IST-MUC-WAW-MUC-VIE next month. We investigated but very quickly abandoned any idea of booking these on DL/NW/KL/AF.

WBurcham

Please let me know that a DL mile is infinitely worse off than an AA or UA one... And as for CO, what do you mean 150K for 1-way J?!

Not sure what happened with your search but I found availability for BOTH Y & J.

Y = 75,000 Miles required+ $ 389.57 Taxes/Fees
J = 200,000 Miles required+ $ 307.19 Taxes/Fees

GenevaFlyer

Hi GTITAN,

Excellent analysis, but I would like to provide one minor comment:

Skyteam does not provide any extra luggage benefit to each others elites. Thus, while a FB Plat is allowed 20+20 kg baggage allowance for intra-European coach travel, a DL DM will be stuck with the standard 20 kg. (Similarly, an FB Plat will be hit by DL's extra luggage charges flying domestic in the US).

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

thepointsguy

Sorry, its hard to glean useful information from long rants. And btw, as WBurcham noted, the flight is available, so not sure what the real reason is for the post.

Also not sure why its posted in a thread "DL Diamond still best in class?? considering it really has nothing to do with Diamond status, but more about redemptions, which have been discussed (ranted?) here Ad nauseam.

OxyChaz

A big problem here is that DL leaves out California for the most part. You've got to have a real hub in CA...either LA or SF...AA & UA do. There is just so much traffic in and around this state. On DL, I'd have to connect through SLC to get from LAX-Sacramento...or anywhere else in the west for the most part. Once DL dropped its contract with ExpressJet, it lost ANY credibility it had for frequent travelers who need to move around within this state or the region.

Until DL is serious about developing a real California operation, many of us will be forced to stick with UA and AA for our short AND long haul flying.

-OxyChaz

GTITAN

Thanks, you're absolutely correct on that as it is not a "ST Plus Benefit" per se. I'll edit the post accordingly!!

Safe Travels