jimrpa

Why? If so, then Delta owes me a First Class round-trip ticket to Sydney! After all, I've flown on Delta before, and my local township harassed me about some supposed zoning law violation that turned out not to be true!

In fact, Delta owes me TWO round-trip First Class tickets by your logic. The Schwenksville Police once gave me a speeding ticket, which I was able to successfully fight in court!

Let's all demand free transportation from Delta whenever any government body does something wrong!

jimrpa

Do you know that factually? Or are you speculating (perhaps based on the OPs comments)?

jimrpa

Why? it wasn't Delta's fault that this guy got yanked off a flight and detained! If I don't board a light and it operates normally, then the fare rules govern what happens to me and my ticket? This guy didn't board a flight that operated normally. Delta did not in any way deny him boarding - in fact, he was in the jetway when the government yanked him off the flight.

Prior to the point that agents yanked him out of the jetway, did any Delta employee do or say anything that would indicate that Delta wasn't going to provide the transportation he had purchased? No! He was in the jetway for goodness sake! If Delta were going to deny him boarding, I'm sure they would have. Delta, by their own actions, were ready and willing to transport him!

It amazes me how many apologists (not just you, but the entire "sue Delta because the government abused you" crowd) we have for the increasingly totalitarian regime that passes for a government here.

GUWonder

The OP did not mention about DHS-CBP/ICE data scrubs and scoring, may not even be aware of how that goes on. Data scrubs and scoring by DHS was not the instigating factor.

Buy a refundable ticket for the same itinerary and its opposite in the OP's name. See what happens.

GUWonder

No one in correct mind would call me an apologist for the current government. I have been critical of government actions -- including "unannounced" ones -- for quite some time. That dog won't bite here .... ít won't even bark at me.

Note that I did not say in this thread to sue Delta.

DL is not a fan of mileage runs -- even RealDLInsider has almost said so much.

ND76

I can't think of very many other civil contractual areas where the federal government is an intermediary between contracting parties in a consumer setting. I buy a ticket on Delta, but my ability to avail myself of the benefit of my bargain is dependent upon federal agents allowing me to pass from landside to airside, a decision that they can make on whim and caprice.

I would argue that the TSA is acting as an agent of Delta, because they are performing security duties on behalf of Delta. The OP complied with his contract of carriage by submitting himself for security screening; the TSA, on behalf of Delta, performed the screening. It was the TSA, acting on behalf of Delta, that caused the OP to miss his flight.

I think Delta has an obligation to refund this man the full price of his ticket.

yad

I am new here, but I find this sort of post confusing. Didn't OP pay for his ticket? How would it be free?

I realize he missed his original flight, but if we are going to have security procedures like this at airports (whether or not they are justified is another question, but irrelevant here) then we have to understand that sometimes pax will miss their connections due to valid security concerns through no fault of their own. Do we want to have a situation where you can be detained by security at any airport, and if this causes you to miss your flight you are just SOL? To have security be a sort of "lottery" where if you get caught up in it you lose the tickets you paid for? It seems to me that if we're going to have these kind of security procedures, for the benefit of Delta and all who fly on Delta, and people are occasionally going to get caught up in them through no fault of their own and miss their flights, then they should be reaccomodated in a reasonable way -- they were detained to keep Delta secure, it turned out this was by mistake, so Delta should put htem on the next flight.

radonc1

Quote:
Originally Posted by radonc1 View Post
Delta owes him a trip to FRA or a refund.
Why? If so, then Delta owes me a First Class round-trip ticket to Sydney! After all, I've flown on Delta before, and my local township harassed me about some supposed zoning law violation that turned out not to be true!

I tend to avoid responding to posts such as these, but....

Jimpra: please reread my post. In italics I quoted a previous post that I was responding to. My question was below the italics in standard font. I did not write the italics. I simply wanted to know what was happening now. Perhaps I should have put the italics in quotes as well.
My original question still remains.
Thanks
Radonc1

GadgetFreak

Wirelessly posted (TMobile DASH: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320))

I agree that DLs alledged negative view of MRs is germane to the discussion. Airlines I have flown a lot, UA for instance take a much more positive view. They may think I'm a bit wacky but they are happy for my wacky business.

jimrpa

Absolutely true, and my apologies for lumping you in the "regime apologist" category
Again, absolutely true, and again my apologies - I do get carried away sometimes
Yet again, you're absolutely right. I'm not sure there's any airline that actively encourages mileage runs. The topic of how Delta should deal with the concept of mileage runs should be saved for another day. The issue of the thread here seems to be "was Delta in the wrong because of actions taken by the government? If so, what recompense should the OP get."

Now, if Delta had actively done something on their own to inhibit/prevent the OPs mileage run (say IDB or something), then I'd be cheering the OP on and encouraging him to go to town on DL. My entire point here is that it doesn't appear that Delta deliberately and maliciously prevented this guy from traveling. Why should Delta be punished for the actions of the regime?

jimrpa

Wow, that's a pretty novel argument - the TSA is acting as an agent of Delta? Why wouldn't it be the other way around? Suppose:

1. The "regime" required Delta to provide a complete list of passengers.
2. The "regime" then detains a passenger (for whatever reason - he was wearing white after September 1st or something).

Wouldn't a more correct argument be that Delta was acting as an agent of the "regime" and therefore should share the "regime's" immunity from prosecution for their actions? It was the TSA, acting despite the intentions of both the OP and Delta to fulfill their contract, that caused the OP to "breech" the contract. Morally then, wouldn't it be the "regime" that owes the OP his money back?

jimrpa

First, welcome to Flyertalk!
Second, boy did you pick an interesting thread to dive into!
Third, I was being a bit sarcastic. The OP's premise is that, because the US Government prevented him from being able to fulfill his part of a contract with Delta, Delta should provide him with compensation - compensation he is only seeking because of the actions of the government, not Delta.
Here's another way to think of it - Why should airlines (or any other business) bear the economic brunt of capricious actions by the government? Sadly, we do have a situation where "security" is a sort of lottery. If you miss a flight because of a hang-up in security screening, for example, most airlines will try to accommodate you as best they can, but they are under no obligation to do so. Think of it this way, you're rushing to get to the airport, and Officer Friendly pulls you over for "speeding". The kind-hearted public servant notes a rollaboard and laptop case in your back seat and, displaying the keen perception and wit so common among local law enforcement officers, surmises that you might be rushing to catch a flight. To ensure that "you learn your lesson", Officer Friendly carefully scrutinizes your license and registration, then casually saunters back to his patrol car. He then spends the next 45 minutes "running your information", while chatting with the dispatcher about the weather, what he did last night, maybe casually browsing a couple of websites like Flyertalk, on the in-car computer, before finally strolling back to you to give you a 10 minute lecture on the importance of safe driving and obeying all posted speed limits. You're finally pulling into the airport parking lot right about the time your flight is scheduled to depart. Is your failure to arrive at the flight on time the airlines fault?

jimrpa

The italicized statement in your post wasn't in the form of a quote, so it looked like you were making a statement and italicizing it for effect. You may want to use the "quote" feature if you are quoting another post.

jfulcher

I personally find it acceptable. They are trying to protect their revenue streams. I don't think they mind upseting a few zealots on flyertalk.com. I personally could do without their business if I were Delta. We don't even KNOW that DL said give this guy extra security. Until you can prove that you guys are as bad as those saying 9/11 was planned by the US government.

GUWonder

..... talk about painting with a broad brush on the wrong surface.

The phrase quod est absurdum speaks to that attempt to smear by false association.