Nov 30, 2018, 8:49 am
Last edit by: ryandc99
Link to open 2020 and beyond version of this thread:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...20-beyond.html
My (LoganFlyer's) guide to maximizing your bump chances on Delta:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30484249-post1713.html
(The concise version:
1. Use the App to see if more people are looking for seats than there are seats available. As part of the Customer Commitment, gate agents, phone res agents, and tickets agents must tell you if a flight is overbooked if you ask. (They don't need to say by how many seats.)
2. Do everything you can to get on the volunteer list through OLCI or a kiosk at the airport, since some GAs use that list.
3. Talk to the GA as soon as the gate opens up--don't wait for them to make an announcement.
4. Don't be afraid to negotiate with the GA.)
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...20-beyond.html
My (LoganFlyer's) guide to maximizing your bump chances on Delta:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30484249-post1713.html
(The concise version:
1. Use the App to see if more people are looking for seats than there are seats available. As part of the Customer Commitment, gate agents, phone res agents, and tickets agents must tell you if a flight is overbooked if you ask. (They don't need to say by how many seats.)
2. Do everything you can to get on the volunteer list through OLCI or a kiosk at the airport, since some GAs use that list.
3. Talk to the GA as soon as the gate opens up--don't wait for them to make an announcement.
4. Don't be afraid to negotiate with the GA.)
Compensation: “Bumps” — Voluntary and Involuntary Denied Boarding [2000-2019]
Jul 18, 2016, 2:26 pm
#1231
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Huh? They end up with IDB because there aren't enough seats for the number of pax who have tickets. Do you think that, if you have an A320 with 160 seats, and 165 people sitting at the gate waiting to board (because revenue management got the math wrong on this flight), where NONE of them have been willing to accept high VDB offers, that Delta would then say "hey, rather than pay IDB for five people, let's completely through a wrench into aircraft scheduling by swapping in a smaller plane (irrespective of the impacts down the line), so we'll really annoy 15 people, not 5, but not have to pay compensation to those five people?"
Jul 18, 2016, 6:35 pm
#1232
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Huh? They end up with IDB because there aren't enough seats for the number of pax who have tickets. Do you think that, if you have an A320 with 160 seats, and 165 people sitting at the gate waiting to board (because revenue management got the math wrong on this flight), where NONE of them have been willing to accept high VDB offers, that Delta would then say "hey, rather than pay IDB for five people, let's completely through a wrench into aircraft scheduling by swapping in a smaller plane (irrespective of the impacts down the line), so we'll really annoy 15 people, not 5, but not have to pay compensation to those five people?"
Jul 18, 2016, 6:37 pm
#1233
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Jul 18, 2016, 6:53 pm
#1234
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So Cornell University is now the final word on aviation law vs. the DOT who makes the aviation laws (which was the link I published)?
Jul 18, 2016, 8:28 pm
#1235
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Your link is .gov, but also a "guide for consumers" and hence possibly summarized/dumbed down. I personally would consider something named "Code of Federal Regulations" more authoritative.
By way of analogy, the CA DMV publishes a driver's handbook so I would certainly be willing to refer to it to settle a dispute, but then I would also consider the California Vehicle Code to be the 100% official word.
Jul 19, 2016, 6:51 am
#1236
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You'd be wrong, then. The CFR for all intents and purposes the law (technically not a statute, but has similar force). It is the actual rule, as written and codified by the relevant regulatory body.
Jul 19, 2016, 6:52 am
#1237
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Note: not claiming any specific authority here, just discussing this in the abstract:
Your link is .gov, but also a "guide for consumers" and hence possibly summarized/dumbed down. I personally would consider something named "Code of Federal Regulations" more authoritative.
By way of analogy, the CA DMV publishes a driver's handbook so I would certainly be willing to refer to it to settle a dispute, but then I would also consider the California Vehicle Code to be the 100% official word.
Your link is .gov, but also a "guide for consumers" and hence possibly summarized/dumbed down. I personally would consider something named "Code of Federal Regulations" more authoritative.
By way of analogy, the CA DMV publishes a driver's handbook so I would certainly be willing to refer to it to settle a dispute, but then I would also consider the California Vehicle Code to be the 100% official word.
Jul 19, 2016, 6:59 am
#1238
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They were offering the VDB compensation as a customer service gesture (which I fully support) - they were not legally required to do so.
Jul 19, 2016, 7:02 am
#1239
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To finally put the "smaller" question to rest, here's a quote from the Department of Transportation's Air Travel Consumer Report from February of this year, in the section showing oversale statistics (page 32). The exception is clearly for aircraft of smaller capacity (i.e. fewer seats), not smaller physical size.
https://www.transportation.gov/sites...uaryATCR_3.pdf
The number and rate of involuntary denied boardings include both passengers who received denied boarding compensation and passengers who did not qualify for compensation because of one of the exceptions in the oversales rule. There are four exceptions: 1) passenger accommodated on another flight scheduled to arrive within one hour of the original flight; 2) passenger fails to comply with ticketing, check-in or reconfirmation procedures; 3) aircraft of smaller capacity is substituted; and (4) passenger is denied boarding due to safety-related weight restrictions on an aircraft with 60 or fewer seats.
Jul 19, 2016, 1:52 pm
#1240
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Jul 19, 2016, 1:55 pm
#1241
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But since it's so important to you, look at https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-20...4-sec250-6.pdf
Jul 19, 2016, 2:03 pm
#1242
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That's nothing like what DL did. DL replaced a 160 seat plane with a 150 seat plane, for operational or maintenance reasons. Hence, they had more pax than seats. There's nothing in that post, or any later post, indicating that they were oversold on the 160 seat plane, and THEN swapped in the 150 seat plane to avoid paying IDB compensation.
They were offering the VDB compensation as a customer service gesture (which I fully support) - they were not legally required to do so.
They were offering the VDB compensation as a customer service gesture (which I fully support) - they were not legally required to do so.
250.2b Carriers to request volunteers for denied boarding.
(a) In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall request volunteers for denied boarding before using any other boarding priority. A "volunteer" is a person who responds to the carrier's request for volunteers and who willingly accepts the carriers' offer of compensation, in any amount, in exchange for relinquishing the confirmed reserved space.
(a) In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall request volunteers for denied boarding before using any other boarding priority. A "volunteer" is a person who responds to the carrier's request for volunteers and who willingly accepts the carriers' offer of compensation, in any amount, in exchange for relinquishing the confirmed reserved space.
Jul 19, 2016, 2:09 pm
#1243
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You're correct. They're not required to offer any particular level of compensation, however. In the event of an equipment swap, they could, under the regs, ask for volunteers who will take a later flight in exchange for $0.01 in Delta flight credit.
Jul 19, 2016, 2:23 pm
#1244
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They are required to ask for volunteers if the flight is oversold. Have you seen any evidence here that the original aircraft of 160 seats was oversold? Have you seen any DOT guidance to suggest that volunteers need to be solicited when a smaller aircraft is substituted? My most recent personal experience (a DL Connection flight, actually) suggests no call for volunteers was made.
Jul 24, 2016, 6:19 pm
#1245
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They are required to ask for volunteers if the flight is oversold. Have you seen any evidence here that the original aircraft of 160 seats was oversold? Have you seen any DOT guidance to suggest that volunteers need to be solicited when a smaller aircraft is substituted? My most recent personal experience (a DL Connection flight, actually) suggests no call for volunteers was made.