Effective March 1, 2018, Enhanced Requirements Service/Support Animals
Jan 23, 2018, 2:55 pm
#227
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,460
At some point, a person truly needing a Service Dog will be denied boarding because too many so-called ESA's have already boarded, exceeding the animals per cabin limits (someone mentioned 4 on DL).
If it hasn't happened already.
If it hasn't happened already.
Jan 23, 2018, 3:13 pm
#228
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: Formaldehyde Medallion DL DieMiles
Posts: 12,646
First Class - 2
Domestic Business or Domestic Delta One - 2
International Business or International Delta One - 0
Main cabin - 4
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...l-options.html
But there is a strong implication that this applies only to "pets" not ESAs or service animals, since the context is that the animal must stay in a carrier.
Jan 23, 2018, 3:17 pm
#229
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,375
Limits for pets:
First Class - 2
Domestic Business or Domestic Delta One - 2
International Business or International Delta One - 0
Main cabin - 4
...
But there is a strong implication that this applies only to "pets" not ESAs or service animals, since the context is that the animal must stay in a carrier.
First Class - 2
Domestic Business or Domestic Delta One - 2
International Business or International Delta One - 0
Main cabin - 4
...
But there is a strong implication that this applies only to "pets" not ESAs or service animals, since the context is that the animal must stay in a carrier.
what am I missing here? there's no "under the seat in front of you" in D1 ... where can you put a pet carrier? the footwell?
Jan 23, 2018, 3:27 pm
#230
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Venice, Florida
Programs: Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,607
Im severely, deathly allergic to cats but have to say, I have only encountered one in all my travels. Its my choice as a severely allergic person to carry the proper medicines and inhalers should I encounter another cat on another flight. I am flying a public airline and I just dont think you can regulate everything. As unhappy as i was to be sitting next to someone who paid to have their cat in a carrier, they were in their rights as was i to pay extra for a charter flight if I want to avoid an allergen.not sure why it didnt quote the post i was replying to, but ti was something about us very allergic folks being able to claim disability as well. phooey!!! lol.
Jan 23, 2018, 4:23 pm
#231
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,012
If the service animal does not fit in the assigned location, you should relocate the passenger and the service animal to some other place in the cabin in the same class of service where the animal will fit under the seat in front of the passenger and not create an obstruction, such as the bulkhead. If no single seat in the cabin will accommodate the animal and passenger without causing an obstruction, you may offer the option of purchasing a second seat, traveling on a later flight or having the service animal travel in the cargo hold. As indicated above, airlines may not charge passengers with disabilities for services required by part 382, including transporting their oversized service animals in the cargo compartment.
Jan 23, 2018, 4:48 pm
#232
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
My wife and I are both somewhat allergic to dogs, and of course this was one of those types that we tend to find affect us pretty easily, so needless to say by the end of the flight we were both pretty well suffering from our allergies. (Add onto that, asthma and heading to a higher altitude, and that first day of getting acclimatized definitely wasn't particularly pleasant.) .
I'm sorry if I offend you with this, and I am 100% certain that I will be flamed for it, but as a person who also suffers from severe allergies and asthma, I just don't believe that you were impacted in the way you describe. If you went to the house where the dog lived, with their fur all over the place, then yes, of course. But being on the same plane for a few hours? I'm sorry, but I just don't buy it. I'm terribly allergic to cats...can't be in a house with cats for more than 20 minutes without having issues. Yet, I have sat next to a cat on a plane without any issues. Allergies, IME, just don't work the way you describe.
Jan 23, 2018, 6:24 pm
#233
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: Formaldehyde Medallion DL DieMiles
Posts: 12,646
Pets are not allowed in the First Class, Business or Delta One Cabin on certain flights. Learn more about your aircraft. Other restrictions may apply."
The Learn More link does not provide any useful pet-related info.
WRT the highlighted "on certain flights" I recall seeing somewhere on the DL site a statement about service animals or ESAs sleeping in a flat bed seat with the owner. I was not able to find it again.
I believe there are at least 7 or 8 web pages on the DL site now addressing traveling with animals. These pages may not all be mutually consistent.
But, what appears to be coming clear is that there are different rules for ESAs, service animals, and all other animals grouped as "pets."
Will the misapplication of RUCs and GUCs become more frequent as call agents are bogged down and distracted by interpreting and applying pet/ESA/service animal rules?
Jan 23, 2018, 6:30 pm
#234
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Gold, WN A+ & CP, HH Diamond, Hyatt Platinum, National Executive Elite
Posts: 3,246
Jan 23, 2018, 7:29 pm
#235
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,239
And FWIW, I assume cereal is referring to "properly trained" ESAs as -- trained not to relieve themselves indoors, not to attack other people, and to obey basic commands. ESAs, as opposed to service dogs, don't really need to perform any specific function but be cute and cuddly, for the emotional well-being of the owner.
Last edited by Canarsie; Jan 23, 2018 at 11:06 pm Reason: Removed superfluous code.
Jan 23, 2018, 9:05 pm
#237
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MEM
Programs: Starbucks Green Card
Posts: 5,431
From the rest of your post it's clear you don't know what the difference is between a support animal and a service animal.
Legally? Yes, it is.
Last edited by Canarsie; Jan 23, 2018 at 11:06 pm Reason: Consolidation.
Jan 24, 2018, 6:34 am
#238
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
Understanding the vulnerability of those in need, there is a real risk it goes too far as Delta and the airlines push this further through the regulatory process, and air travel for those with a legitimate support animal becomes insufferably difficult.
People with emotional disabilities may be lacking the ability to advocate their rights and be heard in the same way those without disabilities do, and are vulnerable to situations like this, where people who are abusing the system cause the largest airline in the country to take calculated action.
It's also cited by Delta and Bloomberg that the number of emotional support animals on Delta flights has grown 150% since 2015. The diagnosis rate of conditions in the U.S. population that require an emotional support animal to travel I will bet any amount of money has not increased at anywhere near that rate in the last 2 years.
And the knowledge of using an ESA to treat s not new to trained professionals.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ervice-animals
Delta has imposed a requirement for verification the animal is trained - in its view compliant with the ACA.
" emotional support animals will also need to provide a signed document confirming that their animal can behave to prevent untrained, sometimes aggressive household pets from traveling without a kennel in the cabin. "
The feds now have an open request for comment on the issue of abuse and definition of service animal - the first step in codifying change:
"The federal Transportation Department said in an email on Friday that it planned to solicit public comments this summer on the appropriate definition of a service animal and suggestions for strategies to prevent travelers from abusing that definition."
Looking at the comments on stories on this issue in publications like the NYTimes and Washington Post, the comments and 'likes' are overwhelmingly on the side that the ACA is being abused - there are few advocates for the disabled coming out.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/delta-to-require-advance-proof-of-need-for-service-support-animals-to-fly-1516372227?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/b...e-animals.html
They are reacting this way because a minority of highly visible selfish people have chosen to abuse the ACA, which is a shameful outcome for those truly in need.
Last edited by cerealmarketer; Jan 24, 2018 at 6:42 am
Jan 24, 2018, 6:51 am
#239
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,012
And FAA rules clearly state an airline can deny ANY animal boarding--service or not--if it is not 'trained.'
Ultimately, the federal government will need to fix this. And I imagine that something will change--hopefully enough to put the fear of fine or prosecution into those seeking to abuse the system or these online outfits that are churning out fake medical diagnoses for a fee.
Ultimately, the federal government will need to fix this. And I imagine that something will change--hopefully enough to put the fear of fine or prosecution into those seeking to abuse the system or these online outfits that are churning out fake medical diagnoses for a fee.
Jan 24, 2018, 6:59 am
#240
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,012
Oh dear, here's some more 'uninformed' 'haters' (The Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, AFL-CIO (AFA)):
Link.
"AFA adamantly supports this move by Delta for increased requirements for emotional support animals. We are not surprised by their data that shows an 84 percent increase in reported animal incidents since 2016. We are seeing more and more animals in the cabin and it appears there is growing abuse of the system. We are hearing a public outcry to stop the abuse. We are especially concerned that if it is not put in check, those who legitimately need the animal support will not have access to it.
"We need better regulations in place to protect the rights of people with disabilities and our veterans who legitimately need to travel with these animals. We know first-hand that untrained animals can risk the safety, health and security of the passengers and crew. We hope other airlines will consider similar policies and that the Department of Transportation will take this opportunity to provide guidelines for curtailing abuse while protecting the needs of those with disabilities and veterans."
"We need better regulations in place to protect the rights of people with disabilities and our veterans who legitimately need to travel with these animals. We know first-hand that untrained animals can risk the safety, health and security of the passengers and crew. We hope other airlines will consider similar policies and that the Department of Transportation will take this opportunity to provide guidelines for curtailing abuse while protecting the needs of those with disabilities and veterans."