Effective March 1, 2018, Enhanced Requirements Service/Support Animals
Jan 22, 2018, 1:35 pm
#196
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Have you ever been peed on or bitten by an animal on an airplane? Have you ever see this?
Jan 22, 2018, 3:28 pm
#197
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
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I have not personally had any of these experiences nor have I ever witnessed this, nor do I know anyone who has had or witnessed any of this, aside from the story about the dog bite that DL highlighted in the new policy announcement. That is not to say I deny that it happens, but I tend to think the fact that the story is so newsworthy suggests that the issue is rare rather than commonplace.
Have you ever been peed on or bitten by an animal on an airplane? Have you ever see this?
Have you ever been peed on or bitten by an animal on an airplane? Have you ever see this?
We have facts from the airline that incidents are a fast growing issue:
"Delta has seen an 84 percent increase in reported animal incidents since 2016, including urination/defecation, biting and even a widely reported attack by a 70-pound dog. In 2017, Delta employees reported increased acts of aggression (barking, growling, lunging and biting) from service and support animals, behavior not typically seen in these animals when properly trained and working."
If you truly need an ESA - having it properly trained is a reasonable requirement.
It's the minority who abuse who put us in this debate - the policy needs to be adapted, and progress to the reality of 2018 - that it's very expensive to own a pet, and the original law was written before the internet era, when finding out how to 'game' something like this wasn't as easy. The actions of a few are diminishing and disrespecting the struggle that those with real needs have.
Jan 22, 2018, 3:29 pm
#198
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I have not personally had any of these experiences nor have I ever witnessed this, nor do I know anyone who has had or witnessed any of this, aside from the story about the dog bite that DL highlighted in the new policy announcement. That is not to say I deny that it happens, but I tend to think the fact that the story is so newsworthy suggests that the issue is rare rather than commonplace.
Have you ever been peed on or bitten by an animal on an airplane? Have you ever see this?
Have you ever been peed on or bitten by an animal on an airplane? Have you ever see this?
David
Jan 22, 2018, 3:51 pm
#199
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...als-on-planes/
Best quote (yes, that's subjective):
Yeah - that'll keep the fraudsters at bay. Promise more legroom to those with service animals!
Best quote (yes, that's subjective):
Douglas Kidd, executive director of the National Association of Airline Passengers, said that much of the blame for the problems lies with Congress, which wrote too broad a law, and air carriers that have overbooked flights, reduced legroom and poorly treated animals that fly in the cargo bay. He argued that airlines should designate more spacious rows for passengers with true service or support animals.
Jan 22, 2018, 8:49 pm
#201
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I have not personally had any of these experiences nor have I ever witnessed this, nor do I know anyone who has had or witnessed any of this, aside from the story about the dog bite that DL highlighted in the new policy announcement. That is not to say I deny that it happens, but I tend to think the fact that the story is so newsworthy suggests that the issue is rare rather than commonplace.
Have you ever been peed on or bitten by an animal on an airplane? Have you ever see this?
Have you ever been peed on or bitten by an animal on an airplane? Have you ever see this?
"When Marlin Jackson arrived at his row on a Delta flight from Atlanta to San Diego in June, the middle seat was already occupied by a man with a sizable dog on his lap. Jackson squeezed by them to his window seat, and the Labrador mix lunged at his face. The attack lasted about 30 seconds, according to Jackson’s attorney, and left him with facial wounds that required 28 stitches and scars that are still visible today.The mauling, which Delta said was inflicted by a canine identified as an “emotional support” animal, was among the thousands of incidents that just pushed the nation’s largest airline to tighten rules for passengers flying with service or comfort animals. In announcing the changes Friday, Delta said it flew 250,000 animals in those categories last year, up 150 percent from 2015, while “incidents” such as biting or defecating had nearly doubled since 2016."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.1528b7b45681
Jan 22, 2018, 8:52 pm
#202
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Location: Chicago
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It is solely the carriers' fault that they ---- including DL ---- do not require everything which they could require under DOT's rules. DL's rules will be better than the others but there is still a ways to go. Specifically, the law permits the carrier to require documentation that the passenger suffers from a DSM-recognized mental disability or disease. DL does not require that type of documentation containing a specific medical diagnosis.
This strikes me as a bit of fine-tuning and gives some leverage to front-line employees to keep the most obvious frauds and dangerous beasts off aircraft. Whether this continues to need more fine-tuning remains to be seen.
This strikes me as a bit of fine-tuning and gives some leverage to front-line employees to keep the most obvious frauds and dangerous beasts off aircraft. Whether this continues to need more fine-tuning remains to be seen.
It appears that the forms that Delta produced track the ACCA language pretty precisely. The ACCA elements seem to be (1) DSM diagnosis by MH professional or MD (2) under the care of said MH professional or MD and (3) that the ESA somehow contributes to the mental health of the passenger on board the aircraft.
If anything, it seems like (3) is missing from DL's forms, not (1).
https://www.delta.com/content/dam/de...uiredForms.pdf
You'll notice that element (3) is not missing from UA's form:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...imal-form.html
Jan 22, 2018, 9:12 pm
#203
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The real villains are the people who abuse the system to bring fake service animals on board. They are the problem, not Delta. IMHO, organizations that provide support for people who need service animals should be screaming at Congress to get the laws revised so that people who bring fake service animals can be turned away at the gate and put on an at least a 5 year No Fly list.
It's pretty obvious that the people with fake service animals don't care about anybody else, other passengers, aircraft crew and those who have a real need for a real service animal. Shame on them!
It's pretty obvious that the people with fake service animals don't care about anybody else, other passengers, aircraft crew and those who have a real need for a real service animal. Shame on them!
Jan 22, 2018, 9:24 pm
#204
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We don't need hearsay of "I know someone who saw this."
We have facts from the airline that incidents are a fast growing issue:
"Delta has seen an 84 percent increase in reported animal incidents since 2016, including urination/defecation, biting and even a widely reported attack by a 70-pound dog.
We have facts from the airline that incidents are a fast growing issue:
"Delta has seen an 84 percent increase in reported animal incidents since 2016, including urination/defecation, biting and even a widely reported attack by a 70-pound dog.
If you truly need an ESA - having it properly trained is a reasonable requirement.
In many states it is against the law to pass off your pet as a service animal. Of course that only applies on the ground (e.g. a grocery store). Congress needs to pass the same law so it applies to the air as well. Prosecute fraudsters, and maybe that will cut down on the abuse.
Further, the burden of proof on the people with service animals is extremely low, so even if you call the cops, the chances of them actually doing something about it are extremely low.
So I guess that's a no
Last edited by Canarsie; Jan 22, 2018 at 9:37 pm Reason: Consolidation.
Jan 22, 2018, 10:00 pm
#205
Join Date: May 2010
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Dang it. Where will I get the required certificate for my two extra emotional support carry-on luggage bags!
Jan 22, 2018, 10:05 pm
#206
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what? this isn't even close to accurate. If this was the case you wouldn't have the huge mob in this thread with their pitchforks and torches.
Hyperbole much?
84% sounds like a lot but with the absolute numbers we're talking about it's statistical noise.
"The mauling, which Delta said was inflicted by a canine identified as an “emotional support” animal, was among the thousands of incidents that just pushed the nation’s largest airline to tighten rules for passengers flying with service or comfort animals. "
Is the above sufficiently absolute for you?
Hyperbole much?
84% sounds like a lot but with the absolute numbers we're talking about it's statistical noise.
"The mauling, which Delta said was inflicted by a canine identified as an “emotional support” animal, was among the thousands of incidents that just pushed the nation’s largest airline to tighten rules for passengers flying with service or comfort animals. "
Is the above sufficiently absolute for you?
Jan 23, 2018, 4:45 am
#207
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Thousands of people were "mauled" last year?
Come on, even you don't believe that.
Come on, even you don't believe that.
Jan 23, 2018, 5:59 am
#208
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,012
I'm sorry, you said a small group of uninformed people.
Just a small amount of googling will show you there is concern from disability rights groups because airlines can limit the number of animals in the cabin on any given flight.
Just curious--why is it so important to you to defend the honor of individuals who obtain an ESA certification online simply to avoid fees and to be able to bring their animal anywhere they want?
(And if you don't believe a "patient" can fraudulently obtain such a certificate--or that a doctor can fraudulently provide one--consider the prescription of pharmaceuticals.)
Just curious--why is it so important to you to defend the honor of individuals who obtain an ESA certification online simply to avoid fees and to be able to bring their animal anywhere they want?
(And if you don't believe a "patient" can fraudulently obtain such a certificate--or that a doctor can fraudulently provide one--consider the prescription of pharmaceuticals.)
Last edited by trouble747; Jan 23, 2018 at 6:11 am
Jan 23, 2018, 6:03 am
#209
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,012
I have not personally had any of these experiences nor have I ever witnessed this, nor do I know anyone who has had or witnessed any of this, aside from the story about the dog bite that DL highlighted in the new policy announcement. That is not to say I deny that it happens, but I tend to think the fact that the story is so newsworthy suggests that the issue is rare rather than commonplace.
Have you ever been peed on or bitten by an animal on an airplane? Have you ever see this?
Have you ever been peed on or bitten by an animal on an airplane? Have you ever see this?
Perhaps it depends somewhat on region, but the number of dogs on leashes (not in carriers, etc.) has increased exponentially at AUS. A few years ago I can't recall seeing any, other than the occasional service animal.
Jan 23, 2018, 7:55 am
#210
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Posts: 3,443
This isn't true. I have never traveled with an ESA, but I love that people are doing so. Why? Because of the ridiculous fees Delta (and other airlines) charges for those who bring the small animal on board and put them under the seat in front of them in a carrier. Delta is providing no service here and they are charging money cause they can.
So I love that people have figured out a way around this. And there's no way that these new policies will hold up once someone sues, which they will....
So I love that people have figured out a way around this. And there's no way that these new policies will hold up once someone sues, which they will....