DL applies for Haneda slots: ATL/LAX/MSP
Jul 21, 2016, 6:49 am
#211
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However there were slots available for US-PEK/PVG flights. With the request to add LAX-PEK, all US-PEK/PVG nonstop slots would be assigned. Thus why I don't believe that it could be moved to a US-PVG flight.
Last edited by flyerCO; Jul 21, 2016 at 6:56 am
Jul 21, 2016, 7:01 am
#212
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But, as I said, that has nothing to do with the treaty. Under the treaty, all slots to PVG and PEK are equal (interestingly, there are still seven slots available for service to CAN).
Jul 21, 2016, 7:03 am
#213
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Its been years since there was a competitive application for a US-PEK/PVG application. Last time remember it was six years ago. Since then, airlines adding US-PEK/PVG have all applied and without objection received what they wanted. For example, UA's second SFO-PVG, which they will finally start in the fall, was not fought over/objected by AA or DL. If DL loses out on LAX-PEK, but intends to move NRT-PVG to operate the route, other than objections that AA will have, I don't believe UA will try to fight them and apply for LAX-PEK themselves. They've spent the past few years trying to receive a second daily SFO-PVG but the slot times have been unacceptable.
Jul 21, 2016, 7:06 am
#214
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It can be moved. The US-China bilateral treats all frequencies operated by US carriers into China equally, so NRT-PVG is the same as SEA-PEK in the eyes of the treaty. Conceivably someone could open a route case with DOT to try to force Delta to give up the frequencies back to the pool before reallocating them, but that would be unprecedented. Once an airline has these sorts of frequencies, they're fairly free to move them around gateways.
But, as I said, that has nothing to do with the treaty. Under the treaty, all slots to PVG and PEK are equal (interestingly, there are still seven slots available for service to CAN).
But, as I said, that has nothing to do with the treaty. Under the treaty, all slots to PVG and PEK are equal (interestingly, there are still seven slots available for service to CAN).
Jul 21, 2016, 8:50 am
#215
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I suspect the HA slot is good for Hawaii's tourism industry.
Jul 21, 2016, 8:53 am
#216
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It can be moved. The US-China bilateral treats all frequencies operated by US carriers into China equally, so NRT-PVG is the same as SEA-PEK in the eyes of the treaty. Conceivably someone could open a route case with DOT to try to force Delta to give up the frequencies back to the pool before reallocating them, but that would be unprecedented. Once an airline has these sorts of frequencies, they're fairly free to move them around gateways.
But, as I said, that has nothing to do with the treaty. Under the treaty, all slots to PVG and PEK are equal (interestingly, there are still seven slots available for service to CAN).
But, as I said, that has nothing to do with the treaty. Under the treaty, all slots to PVG and PEK are equal (interestingly, there are still seven slots available for service to CAN).
Jul 21, 2016, 9:25 am
#217
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The idea of SEA-CAN has been brought up but management has said there will be no further expansion until FIS expansion is complete. I'm not sure why DL hasn't considered adding redeyes out of SEA, which UA is considering doing more of out of SFO as SFO has pretty much reached its limit with UA's Pacific expansion. UA was given approval to start SFO-CAN years ago but it never started. I suspect if a US carrier starts CAN flying, it will be UA.
Jul 21, 2016, 9:27 am
#218
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I highly doubt NRT-PVG can be moved to anything other then maybe HND. To do otherwise would require a change to the US/China agreement. Now I could see DL moving it to HND and operating MSP-PVG direct via the MSP-HND flight. I'm not sure if the Japan/China governments would allow it, but that would seem the most likely.
It can be moved. The US-China bilateral treats all frequencies operated by US carriers into China equally, so NRT-PVG is the same as SEA-PEK in the eyes of the treaty. Conceivably someone could open a route case with DOT to try to force Delta to give up the frequencies back to the pool before reallocating them, but that would be unprecedented. Once an airline has these sorts of frequencies, they're fairly free to move them around gateways.
Frequencies gained in the post-2004 competitive route cases are tied to the gateways in the applications (eg, all AA and CO frequencies plus all UA and DL frequencies won since 2004) and cannot be moved without permission of the DoT.
Jul 21, 2016, 9:40 am
#219
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Are you assuming MSP-NRT does not receive the axe? I have the assumption that MSP/PDX-NRT will be cancelled and NRT-PVG will be moved elsewhere as DL has alluded to with the opening up of HND. (Fate of NRT-PVG depends entirely on how DOT rules on LAX-PEK as AA and DL have both applied for seven of the nine available China slots. If AA receives it, which I expect they will, DL can just as easily launch LAX-PEK as long as they end NRT-PVG. In fact, I expect them to do so as DL solidifies its position at LAX.) While MSP-NRT will be cancelled, MSP-HND will still give the city of Minneapolis access to downtown TYO. Since its daytime, I assume the flight will do just fine.
Bottom line, MSP has minimal O&D to HND, doesn't offer much in the way of value for unique origination points with critical mass that aren't already possible over a single connection.
AA has applied for LAX-PEK, and is starting HKG.
Jul 21, 2016, 10:08 am
#220
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As it is, DL has said the viability of any MSP-Tokyo link is already bleak. Don't know about PDX, or how that came up in the discussion.
Bottom line, MSP has minimal O&D to HND, doesn't offer much in the way of value for unique origination points with critical mass that aren't already possible over a single connection.
AA has applied for LAX-PEK, and is starting HKG.
Bottom line, MSP has minimal O&D to HND, doesn't offer much in the way of value for unique origination points with critical mass that aren't already possible over a single connection.
AA has applied for LAX-PEK, and is starting HKG.
Jul 21, 2016, 10:15 am
#221
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Sure will make for some entertaining reading when DL whines about losing the authority, and the MSP lovers carrying on in dissertations about the contributions Minnesotans have made to global commerce, culture, etc and NWs storied "heritage" and "leadership" in this market.
Last edited by AAerSTL; Jul 21, 2016 at 10:23 am