alman84

Why do you say this? I haven't been following the Delta Tokyo changes very closely, but I should as I fly MCI-MSP-NRT 5 to 6 times a year. I'd love it if they were awarded the Haneda slot as my destination is generally 10 minutes from there (or taking the Shinkansen to Nagoya), but if DL is not awarded MSP-HND AND they get rid of MSP-NRT that gives really me crappy transpacific options for SkyTeam (3+ hr layovers in DTW or LAX).

FWAAA

Given that I posted about IAD/DCA and JFK/LGA as analogies to NRT/HND, it's obvious that I was talking about travelers to New York City and Washington, DC, where DCA and LGA are certainly the preferred airports. Obviously, perimeter limits at both DCA and LGA prevent everyone from flying nonstop from their origin to those airports, but for those within the perimeters, DCA and LGA are the favorites of business travelers.

Nope, it's not my perspective; every airline and the DoT acknowledge that HND is the preferred TYO airport for travelers to Tokyo, just as I posted. For example, here's what Delta said last month in its application:

https://www.regulations.gov/contentS...ontentType=pdf

All of the applicant airlines said similar things about HND. None claimed that "NRT makes sense to fly to if your destination is Tokyo" and none said that "HND is the place to go if you are traveling onwards to elsewhere in Japan." Further, none of the applicant airlines agreed with you that NRT is "more convenient . . . to get to the city from anyway than HND."

Delta went on to compare HND/NRT to LHR/LGW: that decades of experience has proven that business travelers prefer Heathrow over Gatwick, and the same is true of Haneda over Narita.

About the only thing that AA, DL, UA and HA agree on is that HND is the preferred airport for Tokyo travelers. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but the preference that TYO travelers express for HND over NRT is practically universal, and certainly not my perspective.

As for your earlier claim that connections at HND are the attractive part of serving that airport: DL and HA have no on-line connections at HND yet DL wants three of the five USA-airline frequencies and HA wants the other two. If the attractiveness of HND relied on beyond-HND connections, then DL and HA would have little use for any HND frequencies, let alone all of them.

jiburi

Didn't seem it was posted yet, but looks like DL has moved its Haneda flight to daytime using 777 for winter schedule....

Looks like effective dates is 10/30/2016....

DL 6 HND LAX 5:25PM 10:20AM 777
DL 7 LAX HND 10:50AM 3:45PM 777

and a surprise, NRT LAX will terminate 10/30/2016.

Jiburi

wlau

NRT - LAX cancelled?!@!#@&($# I guess it's SEA or PDX for me then.


I do like the reschedule for HND...more aligned with normal business needs. Finish biz meeting and dinner, get a good night sleep and then fly... 10:20am for staying near HND is a very good time slot.

Chadg

Delta has tentatively been awarded daytime service to HND from LAX and MSP with Boeing 777 aircraft.
If they should stop MSP service, American has been granted backup authority from DFW.


http://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf97/568.pdf

jrkmsp

It's a big victory for Delta's MSP operation. It gets a fairly unique route in the system (KEF being the only other international destination served over only one hub) and it managed to hold onto its sole Asian connection. Now if only it could get a PVG flight (which is dependent on more US-China slots), things would be swell up here.

Dieuwer

So, the only way to get to HND from the East Coast on an US-flagged carrier is to fly via MSP? (And not being insane like flying to LAX first...)

Chadg

Yes that is correct. In their tentative finding, the DOT said they first gave all carriers their incumbent slots, though that is not what they originally set out to do in the original proceeding, then they looked at the remaining 4 applications (AA-DFW, DL-MSP/ATL, and UA-EWR) to determine the 5th daytime slot. UA was not chosen because ANA serves EWR combined with them having a JV with ANA and AA was not chosen at DFW (except as backup MSP authority) because MSP gives better competition with ANA at ORD, less circuity for most of the country east of the Rockies, and because of AA's JV with JAL.

Dieuwer

ANA flies to HND from ORD and EWR?

jrkmsp

ORD, JFK (I believe) and HNL.

Chadg

Sorry, I meant JFK, not EWR, and they both begin October 30.

Dieuwer

And when will DL load the MSP-HND flights?

Chadg

No idea. Per the show cause order, this award has not been made final, so changes from the DOT are still possible.

sbm12

It is not just if DL stops flying. I can see the DoT getting upset if the MSP-HND route is downgauged, too.



KEF has MSP and JFK service.

For the one remaining US-carrier flight to China DL and AA both applied for LAX-PEK service; MSP-PVG isn't happening anytime soon and was not a priority for Delta.

pbarnette

Aside from the HA allocation, they made the right call. Even with HA, I guess it nominally provides some competition, but I still think the benefit to US travelers is too little to outweigh the case for DFW or ATL.