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DL applies for Haneda slots: ATL/LAX/MSP

DL applies for Haneda slots: ATL/LAX/MSP

Old May 20, 16, 1:05 pm
  #181  
 
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Originally Posted by teddy25 View Post
Looks like MSP-NRT is gone no matter what happens with HND. Unless DL blackmails MAC on paying for it.
Why do you say this? I haven't been following the Delta Tokyo changes very closely, but I should as I fly MCI-MSP-NRT 5 to 6 times a year. I'd love it if they were awarded the Haneda slot as my destination is generally 10 minutes from there (or taking the Shinkansen to Nagoya), but if DL is not awarded MSP-HND AND they get rid of MSP-NRT that gives really me crappy transpacific options for SkyTeam (3+ hr layovers in DTW or LAX).
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Old May 21, 16, 2:04 pm
  #182  
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Originally Posted by RealHJ View Post
Depends on where you're going. For Northern VA (Herndon, Reston, etc.), yes, IAD is the preferred airport. Even if leaving from elsewhere in VA in the morning, driving to IAD on the dedicated two lanes of 267 is easier and faster to get to than being stuck in rush hour morning traffic going to DCA.
Given that I posted about IAD/DCA and JFK/LGA as analogies to NRT/HND, it's obvious that I was talking about travelers to New York City and Washington, DC, where DCA and LGA are certainly the preferred airports. Obviously, perimeter limits at both DCA and LGA prevent everyone from flying nonstop from their origin to those airports, but for those within the perimeters, DCA and LGA are the favorites of business travelers.

Originally Posted by RealHJ View Post
It all depends. You just seem to discount all other and different perspectives from yours (it sure does make life easier to put on the blinders and take a myopic stance). Luckily, DoT and others do not agree with you - as they know and understand how the world works. If they did, then HA would not have the original slot it got. But, DoT saw what you fail to see: that it should be awarded where there is the greatest gain to the US economy (and thus US gov't revenues).
Nope, it's not my perspective; every airline and the DoT acknowledge that HND is the preferred TYO airport for travelers to Tokyo, just as I posted. For example, here's what Delta said last month in its application:

Access to Haneda Airport is Essential for Delta in Tokyo Market

Delta’s Proposed Service at Haneda Airport will give the traveling public easy access to downtown Tokyo and an opportunity to provide competitive balance to a market dominated by United/ANA and American/JAL. Haneda is the fifth busiest airport in the world,26 the largest airport in Japan, and the preferred airport for Tokyo travelers due to its close proximity to Tokyo city center.27

27. Narita Airport is over 45 miles from Tokyo’s downtown, a commute that requires over an hour by car or train; Haneda Airport is located only 13 miles away from downtown, roughly a 15 minute trip.

<snip>

Given Haneda Airport’s close proximity to Tokyo’s downtown, and the potential future expansions and projected lessening of restrictions, Haneda is now the preferred international airport in Tokyo.
https://www.regulations.gov/contentS...ontentType=pdf

All of the applicant airlines said similar things about HND. None claimed that "NRT makes sense to fly to if your destination is Tokyo" and none said that "HND is the place to go if you are traveling onwards to elsewhere in Japan." Further, none of the applicant airlines agreed with you that NRT is "more convenient . . . to get to the city from anyway than HND."

Delta went on to compare HND/NRT to LHR/LGW: that decades of experience has proven that business travelers prefer Heathrow over Gatwick, and the same is true of Haneda over Narita.

About the only thing that AA, DL, UA and HA agree on is that HND is the preferred airport for Tokyo travelers. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but the preference that TYO travelers express for HND over NRT is practically universal, and certainly not my perspective.

As for your earlier claim that connections at HND are the attractive part of serving that airport: DL and HA have no on-line connections at HND yet DL wants three of the five USA-airline frequencies and HA wants the other two. If the attractiveness of HND relied on beyond-HND connections, then DL and HA would have little use for any HND frequencies, let alone all of them.

Last edited by FWAAA; May 21, 16 at 3:21 pm
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Old Jun 13, 16, 11:37 am
  #183  
 
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LAX Haneda to daytime (10/30/16), Ends LAX NRT.

Didn't seem it was posted yet, but looks like DL has moved its Haneda flight to daytime using 777 for winter schedule....

Looks like effective dates is 10/30/2016....

DL 6 HND LAX 5:25PM 10:20AM 777
DL 7 LAX HND 10:50AM 3:45PM 777

and a surprise, NRT LAX will terminate 10/30/2016.

Jiburi

Last edited by jiburi; Jun 13, 16 at 11:52 am
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Old Jun 13, 16, 3:56 pm
  #184  
 
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NRT - LAX [email protected]!#@&($# I guess it's SEA or PDX for me then.


I do like the reschedule for HND...more aligned with normal business needs. Finish biz meeting and dinner, get a good night sleep and then fly... 10:20am for staying near HND is a very good time slot.
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Old Jul 20, 16, 11:27 am
  #185  
 
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Delta has tentatively been awarded daytime service to HND from LAX and MSP with Boeing 777 aircraft.
If they should stop MSP service, American has been granted backup authority from DFW.


http://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf97/568.pdf
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Old Jul 20, 16, 11:46 am
  #186  
 
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Originally Posted by Chadg View Post
Delta has tentatively been awarded daytime service to HND from LAX and MSP with Boeing 777 aircraft.
If they should stop MSP service, American has been granted backup authority from DFW.


http://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf97/568.pdf
It's a big victory for Delta's MSP operation. It gets a fairly unique route in the system (KEF being the only other international destination served over only one hub) and it managed to hold onto its sole Asian connection. Now if only it could get a PVG flight (which is dependent on more US-China slots), things would be swell up here.
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Old Jul 20, 16, 11:55 am
  #187  
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So, the only way to get to HND from the East Coast on an US-flagged carrier is to fly via MSP? (And not being insane like flying to LAX first...)
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Old Jul 20, 16, 12:10 pm
  #188  
 
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer View Post
So, the only way to get to HND from the East Coast on an US-flagged carrier is to fly via MSP? (And not being insane like flying to LAX first...)
Yes that is correct. In their tentative finding, the DOT said they first gave all carriers their incumbent slots, though that is not what they originally set out to do in the original proceeding, then they looked at the remaining 4 applications (AA-DFW, DL-MSP/ATL, and UA-EWR) to determine the 5th daytime slot. UA was not chosen because ANA serves EWR combined with them having a JV with ANA and AA was not chosen at DFW (except as backup MSP authority) because MSP gives better competition with ANA at ORD, less circuity for most of the country east of the Rockies, and because of AA's JV with JAL.
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Old Jul 20, 16, 12:11 pm
  #189  
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Originally Posted by Chadg View Post
Yes that is correct. In their tentative finding, the DOT said they first gave all carriers their incumbent slots, though that is not what they originally set out to do in the original proceeding, then they looked at the remaining 4 applications (AA-DFW, DL-MSP/ATL, and UA-EWR) to determine the 5th daytime slot. UA was not chosen because ANA serves EWR combined with them having a JV with ANA and AA was not chosen at DFW (except as backup MSP authority) because MSP gives better competition with ANA at ORD, less circuity for most of the country east of the Rockies, and because of AA's JV with JAL.
ANA flies to HND from ORD and EWR?
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Old Jul 20, 16, 12:14 pm
  #190  
 
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer View Post
ANA flies to HND from ORD and EWR?
ORD, JFK (I believe) and HNL.
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Old Jul 20, 16, 12:15 pm
  #191  
 
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Sorry, I meant JFK, not EWR, and they both begin October 30.
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Old Jul 20, 16, 12:15 pm
  #192  
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And when will DL load the MSP-HND flights?
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Old Jul 20, 16, 12:21 pm
  #193  
 
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer View Post
And when will DL load the MSP-HND flights?
No idea. Per the show cause order, this award has not been made final, so changes from the DOT are still possible.
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Old Jul 20, 16, 12:23 pm
  #194  
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Originally Posted by Chadg View Post
Delta has tentatively been awarded daytime service to HND from LAX and MSP with Boeing 777 aircraft.
If they should stop MSP service, American has been granted backup authority from DFW.
It is not just if DL stops flying. I can see the DoT getting upset if the MSP-HND route is downgauged, too.

Originally Posted by DOT
in the event that Delta were to significantly deviate from its Minneapolis proposal in this proceeding, Delta’s authority would automatically terminate and a backup carrier’s authority would automatically activate


Originally Posted by jrkmsp View Post
It's a big victory for Delta's MSP operation. It gets a fairly unique route in the system (KEF being the only other international destination served over only one hub)
KEF has MSP and JFK service.

Originally Posted by jrkmsp View Post
Now if only it could get a PVG flight (which is dependent on more US-China slots), things would be swell up here.
For the one remaining US-carrier flight to China DL and AA both applied for LAX-PEK service; MSP-PVG isn't happening anytime soon and was not a priority for Delta.
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Old Jul 20, 16, 12:26 pm
  #195  
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Originally Posted by Chadg View Post
Delta has tentatively been awarded daytime service to HND from LAX and MSP with Boeing 777 aircraft.
If they should stop MSP service, American has been granted backup authority from DFW.


http://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf97/568.pdf
Aside from the HA allocation, they made the right call. Even with HA, I guess it nominally provides some competition, but I still think the benefit to US travelers is too little to outweigh the case for DFW or ATL.
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