Jul 14, 2015, 4:38 pm
Last edit by: Zorak
Summary of SkyMiles Upgrade Changes
Effective Aug 1, 2015, DM's on paid fares and no companions will no longer receive complimentary upgrades JFK-LAX/SFO. Delta's reps failed to disclose this in their June 14 announcement.
For travel on or after June 1, 2016, additional fare classes are eligible for SkyMiles upgrades:
Within North American and northern South America, L/U/T fares are now eligible. (Previously only Y/B/M/H/Q/K)
For all other markets, H/Q/K fares are now eligible. (Previously only Y/B/M)
SkyMiles Upgrade Awards will also require more miles. Prices for the following markets as quoted by multiple reservations agents: (Pricing is one-way)
(current chart based on observations has been moved to this thread: Upgrading with miles)
Effective Aug 1, 2015, DM's on paid fares and no companions will no longer receive complimentary upgrades JFK-LAX/SFO. Delta's reps failed to disclose this in their June 14 announcement.
For travel on or after June 1, 2016, additional fare classes are eligible for SkyMiles upgrades:
Within North American and northern South America, L/U/T fares are now eligible. (Previously only Y/B/M/H/Q/K)
For all other markets, H/Q/K fares are now eligible. (Previously only Y/B/M)
SkyMiles Upgrade Awards will also require more miles. Prices for the following markets as quoted by multiple reservations agents: (Pricing is one-way)
(current chart based on observations has been moved to this thread: Upgrading with miles)
SkyMiles July Announcements
Jul 17, 2015, 3:46 am
#226
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,539
The answer is obviously, "Yes".
If you look back 5-6 years at every change they've done, it shows their intentions quite clearly. Sure, they'll throw you an odd bone to confuse you (one way awards, no mileage expiration), but for every step forward, there are three backward.
I'm sure that their actions would make a great marketing doctoral thesis. I think the title might be, "How to screw your customer, and have them thank you".
If you look back 5-6 years at every change they've done, it shows their intentions quite clearly. Sure, they'll throw you an odd bone to confuse you (one way awards, no mileage expiration), but for every step forward, there are three backward.
I'm sure that their actions would make a great marketing doctoral thesis. I think the title might be, "How to screw your customer, and have them thank you".
Jul 17, 2015, 3:55 am
#227
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,539
I never quite got to zero miles, and also credited some miles to them for some RGN F/J flights. I'll work to get it as close to zero before June 1st.
Jul 17, 2015, 4:31 am
#228
Join Date: Jun 2013
Programs: DL Plat, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, Hertz Prez Circle, National Exec
Posts: 1,357
I don't think so. I think they just don't care.
The obvious answer is that if upgrade prices are going upwards "dynamic pricing" is going to push reward tickets upwards as well.
Maybe this will be the straw that breaks the camels back. AmEx can't be to thrilled with this development, plus the pilot union contract rejection... Delta management is cocky and reaching too far.
who would buy an economy ticket and use 30000 miles to upgrade while there is possibility to get a business award seat for as low as 25000 miles?
Bye Delta. Even if I have to fly Delta with no other via choice, no way I am crediting the miles to skymiles. Maybe FlyingBlue or other skyteam programs.
Jul 17, 2015, 4:57 am
#229
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
My latest MSP-CDG discounted business class roundtrip ticket for the French
tennis open last month was bought in May of this year, and it cost me less than $1600 roundtrip. Even got at least 360 BA tier points for it and a large chunk of miles for that.
When it comes to personal, non-reimbursed premium cabin long-haul US-EU travel, I now buy more regular paid deeply discounted business class tickets than I buy award tickets. It's quite useful to be free of hunting and pecking for scraps from the US3's mileage program offerings.
DL Amex spending for the miles? Stupid. I'd be better off even with a cash back card. So DL Amex, go to the scrap yard.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 17, 2015 at 5:04 am
Jul 17, 2015, 5:40 am
#230
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: OKC
Programs: DL DM/2.768MM, Global Entry, Titanium_Marriott, GHertz
Posts: 6,752
My international trips have fixed dates and destinations so I can't shop around for the best fare anywhere in the world but i would like to know how you got such a good deal at the last moment for the French Open.
At least my corporate AMEX gives me points that I can use in ways other than flying on DL.
At least my corporate AMEX gives me points that I can use in ways other than flying on DL.
Jul 17, 2015, 6:21 am
#231
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York, western US
Programs: DM/3MM
Posts: 4,246
It looks like DMs are screwed with "secret" complimentary upgrades on TCONs. Oh well. I guess DL is closing the gap between cash and free upgrades for TCON J which has been out of whack. Elite experience of D1 will become even more elite and everyone will be happy. (Especially nonrevs.)
Sorry DMs, WJBJ.
Sorry DMs, WJBJ.
Only offering 2 RT upgrades (4 RUCs for the PM choice benefit) is not going to cut it. (And most will not sacrifice their 4 GUCs for 8 RUCs...and 4 GUCs is uncompetitive with AA EXP to begin with.)
Making the use of RUCs mandatory for upgrades on these routes is a reduction in DM benefits (but clearly benefits PMs). Taking away complimentary upgrades makes that worse. This will unnecessarily piss off their DMs in this market who have another choice, AA. And since you could still offer space available for DM upgrades after filling seats with certs, it just seems doubly punitive, for no apparent reason.
Jul 17, 2015, 6:39 am
#232
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
With prices like this in business class on regular paid tickets, I didn't have to rely upon booking an award ticket picking up scraps from the mileage program of a US3 airline. I had been looking at availability/pricing using DL miles, but DL award ticket pricing was very ugly unless purchasing separate tickets to get from MSP, ORD or NYC to Paris, and even then the award ticket pricing DL wanted was anything but uniformly acceptable.
Jul 17, 2015, 6:48 am
#233
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York, western US
Programs: DM/3MM
Posts: 4,246
GUWonder (hijacking thread), did you get your French Open tickets through the official site, and if not, were you able to get tickets for a reasonable cost? I thought the prices were a bit steep (even tried to go to the one in Monaco and they were steep too). Just curious...we wanted to go to the French Open for a few days and decided against it because of the cost (and went to Spain instead).
Jul 17, 2015, 7:54 am
#234
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: DL DM 2MM, Marriott LT Titanium, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 15,198
Grabbed a couple F seats to the Caribbean next Jan for 30k each way during peak winter season... thats right, full award ticket for the same price as the future upgrade cost.
Jul 17, 2015, 8:03 am
#235
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York, western US
Programs: DM/3MM
Posts: 4,246
I was fortunate enough to get a very knowledgeable DL rep this am. She told me that the complimentary upgrades on the transcons are indeed going away, but they will still be in place up to and including July 31. So as of August 1, no more complimentary upgrades for DMs.
She said that there was a lot of noise around this, and highly encouraged me (and other DMs) to contact/complain via DL.com. She commented that if enough DMs complain, especially for something like this, it might get reversed. She gave me examples of other changes that were reversed due to a large negative reception by higher-ranking Medallions. FWIW.
She said that there was a lot of noise around this, and highly encouraged me (and other DMs) to contact/complain via DL.com. She commented that if enough DMs complain, especially for something like this, it might get reversed. She gave me examples of other changes that were reversed due to a large negative reception by higher-ranking Medallions. FWIW.
Jul 17, 2015, 8:28 am
#236
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 723
I wonder if this will force the introduction of a true premium economy class on long haul Delta service?
The reason I think this might happen is that, if the devaluation is as bad as these early reports indicate, D1 class will become basically inaccessible to a whole class of people who had previously been flying in D1 using miles or mileage upgrades.
Many of us (myself included) simply won't sit in coach for a 10 or 12 hour flight. It would be under this circumstance that I would start to shop away from Delta. While I really can't afford to spend $4K-6K on a D1 seat, I very well might decide to bite the bullet and pay $2K for a premium economy seat on one of the many foreign carries who seem to able to offer this service (and no, the 4 extra inches in comfort plus don't cut it).
The reason I think this might happen is that, if the devaluation is as bad as these early reports indicate, D1 class will become basically inaccessible to a whole class of people who had previously been flying in D1 using miles or mileage upgrades.
Many of us (myself included) simply won't sit in coach for a 10 or 12 hour flight. It would be under this circumstance that I would start to shop away from Delta. While I really can't afford to spend $4K-6K on a D1 seat, I very well might decide to bite the bullet and pay $2K for a premium economy seat on one of the many foreign carries who seem to able to offer this service (and no, the 4 extra inches in comfort plus don't cut it).
Jul 17, 2015, 8:29 am
#237
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Meechigan
Posts: 1,006
It looks like DMs are screwed with "secret" complimentary upgrades on TCONs. Oh well. I guess DL is closing the gap between cash and free upgrades for TCON J which has been out of whack. Elite experience of D1 will become even more elite and everyone will be happy. (Especially nonrevs.)
Sorry DMs, WJBJ.
On a side note, it's interesting how DL will manage with partner redemptions.
Sorry DMs, WJBJ.
On a side note, it's interesting how DL will manage with partner redemptions.
But yes, this should be good news for nonrevs.
Jul 17, 2015, 8:35 am
#238
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York, western US
Programs: DM/3MM
Posts: 4,246
They can have all the fancy writing and pics on their website but on board about the only that has any consistency is the food and that is not 100% of the time. If I'm paying $5-$7K/pp for a J seat long haul I want the service to be FAR better than what DL's cabin crews currently provide. Don't get my wrong, I'm a southern boy who generally loves all the DL FAs but service style/attitude expectations on a domestic US flight is FAR different than long haul international. I see nothing that tells me DL's head of inflight understands this or has any clue.
Jul 17, 2015, 9:08 am
#239
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
If DL eventually introduces W, it won't be because they're removing upgrades to J.
Most people buy cheapest available. They don't care about these changes. Some people buy J outright (corporate policy or whatever). They don't care about these changes. That leaves a tiny, tiny percentage of people who jump through hoops to chase OU inventory or play games with gate waitlists. I suspect this number is typically between 1 and 4 per longhaul flight.
Meanwhile, W has been around for a while. You can even buy DL marketed W seats on 3 different carriers. If DL wanted to introduce a proper W service, it would be because they think people will buy it at a profitable price. (They must already have data on this based on their own sales.) That some people can't upgrade into J is not a reason to invest millions in a whole new product.
Most people buy cheapest available. They don't care about these changes. Some people buy J outright (corporate policy or whatever). They don't care about these changes. That leaves a tiny, tiny percentage of people who jump through hoops to chase OU inventory or play games with gate waitlists. I suspect this number is typically between 1 and 4 per longhaul flight.
Meanwhile, W has been around for a while. You can even buy DL marketed W seats on 3 different carriers. If DL wanted to introduce a proper W service, it would be because they think people will buy it at a profitable price. (They must already have data on this based on their own sales.) That some people can't upgrade into J is not a reason to invest millions in a whole new product.
Jul 17, 2015, 9:30 am
#240
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Marcos, CA
Programs: DL - DM MM / UA - PP / LH - SEN / Marriott - AMB-LTT / Avis - PC
Posts: 342
I'm just at the point of "I don't give a f..." with these DL SkyMiles changes. I receive the emails, I see the threads and yes, I understand the frustration. But at the end of the day, I know that my loyalty doesn't mean anything to DL. I have many more things to care about and give my time and dedication to. I've just accepted the continued devaluation of the program and moved on. If the hard product was changing for the worse, then I'd feel differently.
Also, I apologize if this was asked already, but I never understood why JFK-LAX/SFO was treated differently than JFK-SAN. As SAN is my home airport, it doesn't bother me much, but I do fly in and out of LAX frequently.
Also, I apologize if this was asked already, but I never understood why JFK-LAX/SFO was treated differently than JFK-SAN. As SAN is my home airport, it doesn't bother me much, but I do fly in and out of LAX frequently.