Jul 14, 2015, 2:48 pm

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Last edit by: BadgerBoi

The Definitive Guide to Seat Poaching

1. Don't do it.
2. Alternatively to #1: Asking politely (and not demanding) to swap for an equal or better seat is acceptable by most (but the final decision always lays with the original seat holder)...but, be warned, some FT'ers may breathe fire at you.
3. Keep in mind that Point 2 is not seat poaching.

Seat Swapping, Seat Poaching and Seating Etiquette: The Definitive Thread

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Sep 22, 2017, 8:08 am

#1381

BadgerBoi

Join Date: Mar 2007

Programs: QFF Gold, Flying Blue, Enrich

Posts: 5,366

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorBlues

Do you not realize that "[g]o sit in your seat," and "[t]alk to an airline employee, not me" are phrased as orders, not a description of what you think people should do? That's how parents talk to their children when they aren't listening. This writing style is what prompted my sarcastic king of the world response, not your opinion (misguided though it may be) that you don't believe you should even be asked for a swap.

Southwest might be a better fit for you.

Sep 22, 2017, 8:10 am

#1382

KevinDTW

Join Date: Sep 2013

Programs: DL PM, 1MM, DL SC, Kimpton Inner Circle

Posts: 2,416

Quote:

Originally Posted by bergamini

To me, it was needed on a cumulative level and not because of an isolated incident.

Sep 22, 2017, 8:11 am

#1383

GatorBlues

Join Date: Jun 2012

Location: Atlanta

Programs: Delta Diamond; HHonors Diamond

Posts: 655

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerBoi

Southwest might be a better fit for you.

I see you now want to change the subject from your autocratic posting style. Virtually all of my flights are alone for business. I haven't asked for a swap in years. Sorry to burst your bubble of believing that only those asking think it's OK to ask.

Sep 22, 2017, 8:35 am

#1384

BadgerBoi

Join Date: Mar 2007

Programs: QFF Gold, Flying Blue, Enrich

Posts: 5,366

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorBlues

It's so kind of you to apologise, but you haven't burst a single bubble.

the topic seems to be very close to your heart, considering you haven't asked for a swap in years.

Sep 22, 2017, 9:25 am

#1385

GatorBlues

Join Date: Jun 2012

Location: Atlanta

Programs: Delta Diamond; HHonors Diamond

Posts: 655

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerBoi

It's so kind of you to apologise, but you haven't burst a single bubble.

the topic seems to be very close to your heart, considering you haven't asked for a swap in years.

As I assume you know, the phrase "sorry to burst your bubble" is not an actual apology in common usage. Nor did I mean it to be one here.

The issue is not "close to my heart." But I don't suffer fools gladly, and I've enjoyed deconstructing several flawed arguments raised in response to my first post. If a handful of posters hadn't kept debating against imaginary points the rest of us hadn't raised, we would have wrapped this up in a page or two at most. Although it took a lot longer, it's boiled down to its essence now. Some think it's rude to ask for a swap and will never switch; some think such a position is itself rude.

No one is going to change anyone's mind about those two diametrically opposed views. So we should be finished. Indeed, I thought we were finished before a straggler jumped in to make brilliantly persuasive arguments like "go sit in your seat" or "Southwest might be a better fit for you."

Sep 22, 2017, 9:30 am

#1386

jeet

Join Date: Mar 2015

Location: Home

Posts: 469

Guys cut it!
Please stop this personal back and forth

susanc and CrazyEddie like this.

Sep 22, 2017, 9:34 am

#1387

GatorBlues

Join Date: Jun 2012

Location: Atlanta

Programs: Delta Diamond; HHonors Diamond

Posts: 655

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeet

Guys cut it!
Please stop this personal back and forth

Good advice. I will take it.

Sep 22, 2017, 10:02 am

#1388

Proudelitist

Suspended

Join Date: Nov 2015

Posts: 1,808

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethb

You've never requested someone to hold a door for you, or an elevator? You've never phoned an airline to ask for a seat that you want, or the flight that you want?

Or perhaps asking for something you want is acceptable under some circumstances.

I'll remember that if you're ever running for an elevator that I'm in.

I have never asked someone to hold an elevator. And it is an imposition to do so, because it requires that the asked be slowed down for the benefit of the asker.

And as to the second example of calling an airline..that's their job. If I ask someone whose job it is to book seats for customers, that's not an imposition any more than asking for a hamburger from a person working the cash at a Burger King.

Sep 22, 2017, 10:07 am

#1389

Proudelitist

Suspended

Join Date: Nov 2015

Posts: 1,808

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvogt

You don't NEED to be upgraded or receive any benefits as a frequent flyer yet you feel entitled to them. Nobody NEEDS to sit with family or friends on a plane but it sure does make the flight more enjoyable. I will never hesitate to ask because it can't hurt.

Making your experience more enjoyable by requiring a sacrifice, task, or effort from a total stranger is an imposition. It doesn't matter if they agree or have no problem with it. You are still asking things of others for your personal benefit.

Sep 22, 2017, 10:32 am

#1390

bergamini

Join Date: Aug 2003

Location: MSN

Programs: Delta DM, Bonvoy LT Titanium, Hertz PC

Posts: 1,987

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerBoi

We were disappointed that we couldn't sit together on the plane, but we didn't play human Tetris with other passengers so that we could sit together. Guess what, we survived that trip.

You haven't met my mother

BadgerBoi likes this.

Sep 22, 2017, 2:06 pm

#1391

theddo

Join Date: Jun 2013

Posts: 948

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorBlues

But I don't suffer fools gladly, and I've enjoyed deconstructing several flawed arguments raised in response to my first post.

Were those posts deleted? Stating your opinion time and time again as fact isn't "deconstructing several flawed arguments".

Sep 22, 2017, 2:18 pm

#1392

Kamalaasaa

Join Date: Aug 2013

Location: Olde Dominion

Programs: DL Silver - uh huh!

Posts: 948

Quote:

Originally Posted by madix

If you ask someone to hold an elevator for you ... you gain at someone else's expense.

....

Same with holding the door ... that is also an imposition.

It's interesting to me to see how differently people define what an imposition is. Personally, I don't consider holding a door (elevator or otherwise) for someone an imposition - I do that without even being asked, or even stopping to think about it, simply as a courtesy to another fellow human. (Although I will admit that on occasion I find it a mite annoying, not to do it would be a sign of disrespect to them, at least in my worldview.)

I guess I risk sounding sanctimonious (or at least naive) when I say I'm still surprised when someone passing through a door ahead of me doesn't hold the door for me. I don't even mean hold it for me so I can pass through; I just mean hold it so it doesn't shut in my face. Why do we treat each other so badly? (FWIW, this just happened to me - guy not 10 feet in front of me, who knew I was there, let go of a door as he passed through so it shut in my face.)

susanc and kitkat77 like this.

Last edited by Kamalaasaa; Sep 22, 2017 at 2:19 pm Reason: Posted too soon

Sep 22, 2017, 2:28 pm

#1393

CrazyEddie

Join Date: Dec 2009

Location: ATL

Programs: Delta Skymiles

Posts: 355

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proudelitist

I have never asked someone to hold an elevator. And it is an imposition to do so, because it requires that the asked be slowed down for the benefit of the asker.

I was trying to stay out of this back-and-forth (especially since I couldn't keep track of who was saying what), but if people think *this* is an affront to societal (or even personal) norms, then I've been out of the loop. I ask for people to hold the elevator, and I routinely try to stick my hand between the doors for those who ask, and those who don't. Just today I tried and felt bad when I couldn't make it and the woman (who had not asked for a door hold) shouted "it's OK!!" Maybe this is a geographical customary distinction. And the time taken was probably 10 seconds, and if she had been on a floor below me, probably another 10-15 if I had been successful.

Sep 22, 2017, 2:45 pm

#1394

ATLflyer2017

formerly jackvogt

Join Date: Dec 2015

Location: Atlanta, GA

Programs: Delta SkyMiles,

Posts: 822

Quote:

Originally Posted by Occupationalhazard

As someone who negotiates for a living, I can tell you that you cannot depend on people "behaving rationally", or at least what constitutes rationality from one's own viewpoint. In fact, you can pretty much count on them not to, after a certain point.

"...and forgive us our seat-poaching"? Not so much.

Hmm. Benefits published as part off an FF program? Well, yeah, and I promise you that I haven't published "ask me three times and I will switch seats with you", anywhere.

And don't start in about upgrades because I'm a "WFBF" guy.

Maybe. How many times do you make the other person say "No" before you quit?

I am not opposed to being asked, once, politely, but when I say "No" that's not an invitation to further cajoling -- although I have thought about offering to switch for $100, not because I'd do it (and I have never raised this idea in practice, of course) but only to demonstrate that, suddenly, it's not so important for Timmy and Suzie to sit together.

Beyond that, there seems to be a subtle entitlement among the Asker Faction, and if the Askees don't agree then they're "bad people". Ask me once, ok. Ask me twice because I said no? Yeah, tough noogs.

O/H

I don't continuously ask...just one time and if they say no, I go on my way. Little do people know all you have to do is ask the gate agent, they will bump someone out of their seat (assuming your request is reasonable) and call the passenger up to the podium to receive their new boarding pass.

Sep 22, 2017, 3:00 pm

#1395

GatorBlues

Join Date: Jun 2012

Location: Atlanta

Programs: Delta Diamond; HHonors Diamond

Posts: 655

Quote:

Originally Posted by theddo

Were those posts deleted? Stating your opinion time and time again as fact isn't "deconstructing several flawed arguments".

Hmm, a few examples . . .

When I wrote from the beginning that only the seat holder gets to decide what's an equal or better trade, and posters responded that I'm wrong because I don't get to decide what's equal, that wasn't a flawed argument?

Argumentum ad populum applied to a social more wasn't a flawed argument?

You shouldn't ask for anything you don't need wasn't a flawed argument?

Reading is fundamental. Try it next time.

Last edited by GatorBlues; Sep 22, 2017 at 3:44 pm