tentseller

Give us this day our daily seat.

madix

I have no skin in this game, but as an observer I thought I'd point out that your examples make Proudelitist's case.

If you ask someone to hold an elevator for you, you save some time but the people on the elevator have to wait for you to get on. It's only a few seconds and not usually a big deal, but you gain at someone else's expense.
That seems to be the definition of an imposition.

Same with holding the door. You save time by not having to open the door but the other person has to give up their time in order to do so. Again, people are usually fine with it, but that is also an imposition.

The example of calling an airline doesn't seem to fit into this discussion. A person asking something from a company is not the same as a person asking something of another individual.

ATLflyer2017

You don't NEED to be upgraded or receive any benefits as a frequent flyer yet you feel entitled to them. Nobody NEEDS to sit with family or friends on a plane but it sure does make the flight more enjoyable. I will never hesitate to ask because it can't hurt.

CrazyEddie

Meanwhile..... I was walking through FC today on a flight from TPA to ATL and witnessed two separate *requests* for seat swaps, both of which were agreed to (although the first guy was somewhat reluctant because he ended up with the bulkhead window and was a large guy. I rolled my eyes a bit because they were holding up the line (albeit not for long) and the FA saw me and agreed that she tries to stay out of such requests, but always makes clear that no one has to agree to a requested move.

NOTE - I'm in no way wading into the arguments that have erupted on this thread over the last few weeks. I'm just reporting an incident of seat swapping (not poaching).

sethb

To me, the definition of an imposition requires it be more than trivial. And the cost of being asked is at most trivial (the cost of doing might be much greater).

DeltaDunce

Lame.

He / she makes things interesting.

Occupationalhazard

As someone who negotiates for a living, I can tell you that you cannot depend on people "behaving rationally", or at least what constitutes rationality from one's own viewpoint. In fact, you can pretty much count on them not to, after a certain point.

"...and forgive us our seat-poaching"? Not so much.

Hmm. Benefits published as part off an FF program? Well, yeah, and I promise you that I haven't published "ask me three times and I will switch seats with you", anywhere.

And don't start in about upgrades because I'm a "WFBF" guy.

Maybe. How many times do you make the other person say "No" before you quit?

I am not opposed to being asked, once, politely, but when I say "No" that's not an invitation to further cajoling -- although I have thought about offering to switch for $100, not because I'd do it (and I have never raised this idea in practice, of course) but only to demonstrate that, suddenly, it's not so important for Timmy and Suzie to sit together.

Beyond that, there seems to be a subtle entitlement among the Asker Faction, and if the Askees don't agree then they're "bad people". Ask me once, ok. Ask me twice because I said no? Yeah, tough noogs.

O/H

GatorBlues

Your post makes sense about asking a business for something. However, you are mistaken in saying the other examples make Proudelitist's point. To the contrary, they do just the opposite. Sethb was illustrating that strangers ask for small favors all of the time in society, and those requests are an imposition, but an insignificant imposition. Reasonable people roll with these requests, even when they decide to decline. Unreasonable people have a bad attitude about it even when the request was polite.

For example, have you ever heard someone say: "No one should ask to have an elevator held. They don't "need" to get on that particular elevator. They just "want" to not have to wait for the next one. If they had wanted to get on the earlier elevator, they should have planned ahead and arrived earlier." That's the Proudelitist approach.

Many of us view a mere request for a seat swap to fall in this category of an insignificant imposition. A few others see it as an affront so horrible that they won't even switch if the proposed trade would be equal or even an improvement for them (which ONLY they, as the seat holders, would get to decide).

Now that we've finally drilled down to the their true position on seat swap requests, there's really nothing else to debate. We disagree and that's that. However, it took about ten pages for them to admit that the last sentence is their true opinion. One could easily infer that they knew their true opinion was unreasonable, and that's why they spent so much time arguing about points no one was making.

BadgerBoi

I'm on a plane, I'm not interested in moving from my seat. I'm not interested in any sort of negotiation or interaction with you. Go sit in your seat, I'm already in the front of the plane, you're only interested in improving your own situation. Not happy with your lot? Talk to an airline employee, not me.

GatorBlues

Thank you for clarifying your alignment with Proudelitist and a couple others. Everyone else can form their own opinions about what kind of person you are.

Your demand that everyone must go sit in their seat without interacting with you is duly noted. As soon as you get promoted to king of the world, let us know and we'll then start following your decrees.

BadgerBoi

(shrug) I'm not aligned with anyone, I'm quite comfortable with how those who know me feel about me. I have no interest in becoming some mythical "king of the world", nor am I making any demand. Far from it.

I've been assigned a seat on a plane. So have you. If I can deal with that so can you.

DiverDave

For a flight the length of TPA to ATL that's just silly.

Did I mention the time that Reggie Jackson poached my seat on a flight from TPA to ATL. Seriously.

David

bergamini

On ANC>MSP, due to a last minute change to a sold out flight, I was in like 25E next to a large man in 25D. The seat didn't even recline IIR. An enterprising dentist, and small framed, dentist in 21D asked me if I'd like to swap seats with the wife of 25D and so I'd sit in 21E. I said yes because why not and then realized the dentist may have had alterior motives as I was much smaller than the woman who had been sitting there -- and he basically said so. For me I also had smaller seat mates and could now recline. ANC>MSP is a long flight so the spouses got to sit next to each other and my new seat mate and I had more room. That's a win/win.

The bottom line is that it doesn't hurt to ask. What does hurt is if you ask rudely or respond to a non-affirmative response rudely. I've always accommodated seat requests because I grew up in a small town and my instinct is to say yes but I did recently tell a seatmate I was only closing 1 of the 2 window shades (the 2nd I did partially) on a recent BWI>MSP flight. I didn't mind that he asked and I was polite and tried to compromise. What I did mind was that he became a jerk when he didn't get his way. That same thing goes for seat change requests.

I've never asked for a seat swap but I've finally convinced my mom to fly with me to Nashville over Thanksgiving. Her only flight was a MedVac after an emergency tracheotomy so she's a bit terrified. I did paid F but if we get separated due to IROPS you can bet I'm going to ask people to switch for the first time. I hope they will understand and accommodate my elderly mother to sit next to her son on her first jet flight j stead of being offended simply because I asked.

BadgerBoi

tbh, there are times when I really wouldn't have a problem with someone asking - my quoted post should be kept in the context of my response to the silliness of my being accused of aspiring to be "king of the world".

I recall many years ago when my mother and I took a flight just a couple of days after my father's funeral. We were disappointed that we couldn't sit together on the plane, but we didn't play human Tetris with other passengers so that we could sit together. Guess what, we survived that trip.

GatorBlues

Do you not realize that "[g]o sit in your seat," and "[t]alk to an airline employee, not me" are phrased as orders, not a description of what you think people should do? That's how parents talk to their children when they aren't listening. This writing style is what prompted my sarcastic king of the world response, not your opinion (misguided though it may be) that you don't believe you should even be asked for a swap.