Rumor: 747 B/E seat reduction
Mar 21, 2014, 9:31 am
#46
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Boston, MA
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Complete garbage move by DL if this really goes forward.
However, I can see it happening for a variety of reasons:
1. Those who fly 747 routes know that they are packed in Coach and tend to be mid full in BE, or just over. Revenue for 12 BE seats upstairs generally half to a little over half full versus 40-60 EC seats isn't close.
2. DL fills up BE with DL employees on a lot of the 747 routes.
3. BE effectively ends at the 2nd door entry and there is always wrangling over who can use the bathrooms at the right 2nd door. This will end that argument.
4. DL has made many investments to maximize profit on the 747 fleet. This would just be icing on the cake.
With that all said, I have no idea how EC seats can go upstairs. Maybe 10 rows of 4 ?
However, I can see it happening for a variety of reasons:
1. Those who fly 747 routes know that they are packed in Coach and tend to be mid full in BE, or just over. Revenue for 12 BE seats upstairs generally half to a little over half full versus 40-60 EC seats isn't close.
2. DL fills up BE with DL employees on a lot of the 747 routes.
3. BE effectively ends at the 2nd door entry and there is always wrangling over who can use the bathrooms at the right 2nd door. This will end that argument.
4. DL has made many investments to maximize profit on the 747 fleet. This would just be icing on the cake.
With that all said, I have no idea how EC seats can go upstairs. Maybe 10 rows of 4 ?
Mar 21, 2014, 9:40 am
#47
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Center City, MN
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I can't quite imagine 60 people going up and down those stairs.
I'm going to assume they will actually do this and I am really glad I got to ride upstairs a couple times last year.
I'm going to assume they will actually do this and I am really glad I got to ride upstairs a couple times last year.
Mar 21, 2014, 9:55 am
#48
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I wonder if there would be some security issue with that many pax up there.
Mar 21, 2014, 10:20 am
#49
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PDX
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Those BE seats were expensive to procure and install not so long ago, removing them must mean that there's a serious shortfall of fare-paying customers in that cabin. NW flew the 744s with 65 WBC seats, IIRC, with only 48 seats in BE currently.
Mar 21, 2014, 10:26 am
#50
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,813
The biggest reason why this move makes sense is the layout of the seats on the upper deck. Delta can only put 14 on their J seats. Lufthansa has 16 of their old first seats on the upper deck (they only sell 8, and each pax gets 2 seats).
BA has 20 J seats, UA 20 and QF 22.
BA has 20 J seats, UA 20 and QF 22.
Mar 21, 2014, 10:34 am
#51
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If this ends up happening it'll be the EC seats to avoid. Put in that many seats in such a small area and its going to make it feel really cramped with the low ceiling and curvature along the windows.
Mar 21, 2014, 10:36 am
#52
Join Date: Nov 2013
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I've noticed what I perceive as an uptick in advanced econ comfort seat utilization on TRANSAT flights lately. It used to be that booking 5ish weeks out, most of econ comfort on the flights I frequent would be open, but lately that's not the case. This is purely anecdotal on my part, but I don't necessarily think that's a seasonal thing. In these cases there appear to be more overall open seats in Y than before.
I've been wondering if DL would up the cost on those seats. I guess that's a matter of fare/fee competition on individual routes. If there is demand for econ comfort, it makes sense that they might rebalance the mix of J, Y+ and Y to maximize revenue. It may also be an indicator that more and more corporate travel policies are precluding J ticket purchases, but allowing Y+ upgrades. My own company's policy is ambiguous on Y+.
Alternatively: one might consider that this might be an indication of the 74S fleet getting retasked as they break down the NRT hub. Assuming it's all not just rumor. Less BE but more Y+ might make sense on more holiday intensive routes.
I've been wondering if DL would up the cost on those seats. I guess that's a matter of fare/fee competition on individual routes. If there is demand for econ comfort, it makes sense that they might rebalance the mix of J, Y+ and Y to maximize revenue. It may also be an indicator that more and more corporate travel policies are precluding J ticket purchases, but allowing Y+ upgrades. My own company's policy is ambiguous on Y+.
Alternatively: one might consider that this might be an indication of the 74S fleet getting retasked as they break down the NRT hub. Assuming it's all not just rumor. Less BE but more Y+ might make sense on more holiday intensive routes.
Mar 21, 2014, 11:03 am
#54
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
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....also seems like it would be really hot up there with that many people.
Mar 21, 2014, 11:04 am
#55
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No, the smug elitists have assured us DL has no need to offer upgrades, complimentary or otherwise, to those low-value customers known as "medallions," because they can sell lots of paid J.
Mar 21, 2014, 11:44 am
#57
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Mar 21, 2014, 12:22 pm
#58
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I've noticed what I perceive as an uptick in advanced econ comfort seat utilization on TRANSAT flights lately. It used to be that booking 5ish weeks out, most of econ comfort on the flights I frequent would be open, but lately that's not the case. This is purely anecdotal on my part, but I don't necessarily think that's a seasonal thing. In these cases there appear to be more overall open seats in Y than before.
And I've flown in regular E twice in the last six months or so (no EC and no upgrade) so I think they are definitely selling more advance EC.
Mar 21, 2014, 12:32 pm
#59
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Probably because they've made the Y- comfort level so poor that pax wanting a semi-civilized experience are buying and/or sitting in EC. And its not just DL, its all of the major airlines.
Ok back to the rumor topic on 747 BE reduction...
Ok back to the rumor topic on 747 BE reduction...
Mar 21, 2014, 1:02 pm
#60
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Is there any chance in the world that a real premium economy class is going to be rolled out? I highly doubt it but this would seem like the perfect use of this space if they needed to make increase profit of that space.
I am surprised that Delta would do this given that they just purchased those new BE seats for the 747's and I'm sure they were not cheap. And, as someone pointed out, they already reduced BE seating from the 65 seat NWA configuration.
I am surprised that Delta would do this given that they just purchased those new BE seats for the 747's and I'm sure they were not cheap. And, as someone pointed out, they already reduced BE seating from the 65 seat NWA configuration.