technole

Okay, now this is taking it too far. This isn't a bash the ole DL days thread. With that said, I'm not going to comment on Leo Mullin and the days before him, that was a different era with bankrupt economics. RA and the current leadership have done a bang up job and has DL in front of all the majors.

The only thing that is unpredictable is the amount of awesome earnings each quarter.

readywhenyouare

They'd better enjoy the party while it lasts. If Norwegian Airlines beginning LCC TATL service is successful it will attract more competition from international airlines. The airline industry has never been stable and anyone who thinks the US airlines are golden from here on out are kidding themselves.

Beckles

The ability of legacy airlines to earn huge profits for some periods of time has been proven in the past. The ability of legacy airlines to consistently earn any profits over an extended period of time has yet to be proven.

pbarnette

While the second sentence is true, let's not blow up Norwegian's threat into something it isn't. They have 10 planes on order or in the fleet and are splitting the flying between EU-Asia and EU-US flying. They are a pretty well-run airline, but the most immediate threat they pose is to SAS. Frankly, there is a lot of chaff in amongst the peripheral EU carriers and I'd think any impact from the likes of Norwegian in the near-term will disproportionately impact those carriers.

That isn't to say that DL should sit on their laurels, but there is no indication they are doing so.

pbarnette

Quick question... Of the markets remotely near the size of SEA, which ones even came close to skipping a beat when DL skipped town? BOS didn't. LAX didn't. DFW didn't. I'm not even sure MCO did. FLL, maybe, but the region remains well-served. AS doesn't run a charity, they serve the markets that SEA demands. If it isn't DL or AS, it will be somebody. SEA ain't PIT or STL or MEM. SEA is a real city.

readywhenyouare

I can't believe people are arguing with me over my statement that AS is an established hub airline at SEA while DL is not. Maybe DL's strategy at SEA will work and maybe it won't. It's too early to tell. DL hasn't even commenced service on some routes so I'm not sure how they can be championed as the winner already. The Alaska Airlines is "running scared" comment was the real kicker... I haven't seen AS abandon any markets out of SEA.

readywhenyouare

You are braver than I am. When I suggested that MEM was an awful city I had no less than half a dozen people jump down my throat. And I lived there for 18 years so I felt I was qualified to make that statement.

As far as MCO we have never recovered the intra-FL flying since DL abandoned it. I go to MIA and PNS pretty often and it's just a pain having to leave the state only to fly right back. The thing is I'm paying less now to connect in ATL than I ever paid for the nonstop flights. The truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.

pbarnette

I'm not saying they are awful cities (though STL is pretty much the last place on earth I would want to ever have to spend any time), but they are small and poor. Well, STL isn't small, per se, but it is poor. SEA is big and rich.

You can still fly nonstop to MIA, it just isn't on DL.

cmd320

I agree with you. DL seems to enjoy the trial and error method of selecting bases. They're still apparently trying to "win in NY" based on the PM statuses that have been giving away like flu shots. I'm not really sure how much farther they can really take things in NY.

Let's also not forget the overly optomistic and very short-lived return to intra-Florida mini-network that was built in 2011 centered around CRJs feeding the (1 or 2?) daily 764(s) that lasted maybe a year on MIA-LHR. That one was pretty much doomed from the start. That was pretty apparent when DL was selling J for ~$1400rt for June travel.

From talking to the numerous friends and family I have in the SEA area, the AS and even the QX brands are incredibly well established and respected up there. While DL has a very sizable presence, it also seems UA retains a surprisingly loyal following in SEA, though I can't imagine why. It looks to me like SEA has become a place to implement an operation that DL had really envisioned in LAX but likely due to competition and space constraints was deemed impractical. It is interesting to me that DL is going up against already established Asian carriers like NH, KE, and OZ in the Seattle market. I will enjoy seeing how that plays out.

Are you saying you fly MCO-ATL-MIA? If so, why on earth would you do that? It would seem much more practical to drive or at the very least take one of the many nonstop AA MCO-MIA ~30 minute flights. PNS is much more logical, though with Silver starting that route, that's a pretty decent option to PNS now. Beats the pants off an ATL transfer...

hazelrah

I've seen plenty of re-buffed suitors act like petulant children. Heck, I've been a re-buffed suitor and acted like a petulant child, it never occurred to me that this was a strategy.

technole

The whole NYC poaching gig is really countering the slowing transatlantic market. Anytime they can steal passengers from going to EWR its a win. Just like when CO and DL spat against each other in NYC advertising while in Skyteam.

UA used to be a bit bigger at SEA. Now that they pulled out of SEA-NRT, there isn't much for them except raising the ante on AS and DL on the SFO route.

We still have to depend on AS for the short-hauls like YYJ, and GEG. Although it is probably a matter of time until those routes get invaded. WN couldn't make SEA-GEG work in the past.

I'm just happy DL decided to break the status quo with SEA-PDX. As that is a really strong shuttle-like market. A lot of people forget Intel and Nike are huge contracts in that area.

It isn't a question if SEA works for DL. When you have Northwest's history and their 21+ years partnership with AS this isn't a wake-up overnight, let's just invade the turf more. When you run AS's under wing operation at SEA, and their above and below wing at many stations in the US. I think it is easy to say you know how their partner operates. DL has the contracts to make it work long-term.

Humorously Delta is the official sponsor and airline of the Seattle Seahawks whereas AS had to 'settle' with a Russell Wilson 'Chief Football Officer' sponsorship. If that isn't more embarrassing for hometown airline guys.

It was like when the Atlanta Falcons went with AirTran. Horrid move of course.

Even WN stopped flying MCO-FLL. I love how the blame is all DL, but never mind that MCO's largest carrier can't even make some routes work. Silver is good and they are partnered with UA.

ChevyCruze

What do ya have against St Pete?!? It isn't that bad of a place. I live and work in St Pete! Go Rays!

cmd320

I don't disagree that SEA is a market that works for DL. At the same time though I don't see all of these additional DL routes being sustainable, especially with multiple airlines flying some of them. ICN is particularly interesting to me with KE and OZ already flying the route. On the domestic side, it seems many of these new routes are operated by RJs which is an interesting choice.

I don't think the Seahawks would fit on any of AS's aircraft would they? The typical NFL charter aircraft seems to be the 767. Asking a football team to use a 737 for charters would almost require they fly two of them to each away game. That's probably a very big reason why you don't see that relationship with AS.

There is/was really no reason for WN to fly MCO-FLL and once NK entered offering $9 flights on the route with a "hub" on the FLL end, the writing was on the wall. In addition this was a route served by CO Coex/Gulfstrem for a while and is now a Sliver route as well. When you start talking about a 30-45 minute flight vs a very easy ~3 hour drive, there really doesn't become much benefit to flying.

KyBrewer

You'd have to go back and read the entire exchange, but I was expressing my joy at being able to fly AS out of TPA rather than MCO, because the drive to MCO, as well as security, blows when compared to TPA (when one lives in Saint Pete).

technole

It's not the first time they overlapped with KE. DL restarted 772 service ATL-ICN after BK alongside KE's 747 before moving it to DTW when they decided that was going to be the trans-pac hub. Of course that was when the KE code share was deeper and DL wasn't as big domestic to Asia. Now they are in a position of power with Asian O&D in Seattle. In their last earnings conference call it was mention the majority of traffic was local which it needs to be. Thin-markets like KIX was a stretch in the first-place whereas SEA-NRT-KIX would have been practical with all the TYO service available at the time.

AS could have the cost advantage with QX Qs in the short-haul markets. The economics of a CRJ200 vs Q400 to markets that are 40 minutes away isn't hard to argue. Whether OO serves them for DL, I'm curious to see. Whereas a shuttle market like SEA-PDX can definitely work with E175s and that is a rather pro-business travel friendly jet. Wouldn't be surprised if they go all-in just like the new SFO-LAX shuttle.

It isn't typical for an NFL charter to be less than a A330 or 767. I remember NW handled the Seahawks before so that was probably a natural progression of their agreement. DL made it no secret in social media who their team was in the Super Bowl.

Bottom line is Delta is deeply involved in Seattle. As-if people didn't already notice which company they have an exclusive check-in counter for at SEA.