MastaHanky

Not to mention that DTW has quite a bit more international O&D than MSP.

pbarnette

It has more international flights. Do we know it has more international O/D?

Beckles

According to this information, FWIW, while MSP is a larger O/D market than DTW, the difference is pretty minimal (less than 10%). I think the reality is that DTW is better located for connecting traffic and is a much better facility for connecting traffic (after a couple of B to F connections I've learned it's better to avoid MSP if possible ...).

Chalky White

Between DL's buildup at LAX and SEA, having SLC as a hub doesn't make sense anymore.

DTW is a dying town. At least MSP has a few Fortune 500 companies that can afford to pay the fares DL wants to charge its business customers. While the facility at DTW may be nice, DL has given up other nice facilities and was smart to do it (DFW and CVG, for example).

MastaHanky

Significantly more - almost 200,000 O&D pax per year. Additionally, DTWs O&D is more "broad" - almost 20% of MSP's international O&D is headed either to Cancun or Toronto.

pbarnette

Except for connecting, oh, the entirety of the Mountain West region. LAX and SEA are lousy domestic hubs. It serves the same purpose DEN serves for UA, despite UA having a hub at SFO.

We can all agree that the DTW region is, at best, flat in terms of population growth, but there is more traffic than you give credit for.

More important, though is location. Pull out a map and look at where DTW is. Now look at where MSP is. Look to the West of MSP and what do you see? A great big ball of... nothing. Look to the North of MSP and what do you see? A great big ball of... nothing. DTW is simply better located to connect traffic within the Eastern half of the US. MSP is too far north and too far west to serve, on it's own, as a mid-Continent hub.

Now, I'm sure that DL wishes they had a mid-continent hub at ORD, rather than having both DTW and MSP, but they don't and the logical play does seem to be to run a dual-hub strategy in the absence of the real prize in the region.

TheMoose

It's not like the facilities at MSP are an ugly pig (they've won quite a number of industry awards for Best Airport or Top Airport over the past few years), but the occasional connections from Regional-to-Mainline certainly aren't ideal. They've been exacerbated over the past few years due to Delta shifting a lot of mainline flying to regional jets.

Beckles

Minneapolis has two companies in the top 50 of the Fortune 500 ... Detroit has two in the top 10.

Chalky White

Ok, then shut down MSP as a hub. It doesn't make sense to have two hubs that are 500 miles apart.

I don't buy that DTW is all that valuable to connect people into the eastern corridor. ATL and the buildup at LGA take care of most of that.

Chalky White

GM and Ford? I've done work for both and they each pinch travel dollars like nothing I have ever seen.

Bagels

Since 2008, the gap in both local passengers carried and revenues generated by NW-DL at MSP & DTW has shrunk (MSP has long lead DTW, a relic of NW's storied history in the Twin Cities), which is pretty remarkable given the economic melt down in the Detroit area. In fact, when the full 2013 data becomes available, it's possible DTW will have surpassed MSP in terms of local passengers (carried by DL) and probable for revenues. And the business community in DTW continues to rebound.

MSP has always had a disproportionate amount of air traffic for its size, but that's primarily a derivative of its isolated location. DEN is another good example of this... and as WN demonstrated there, much of this traffic swings price-sensitive and is susceptible to flying whoever offers the lowest fare. That bonds well for DTW, as its air traffic growth has largely been on the business side, which will typically fly based on schedule rather than price.

Nor could MSP effectively handle much of the flow traffic from smaller/medium-sized communities throughout the Midwest and Northeast in the frequency desired by business travelers, especially as the economic of the RJ wind down.

FUN FACT: The #1 destination for ex-Detroiters (REAL Detroiters) is the Atlanta area. And these people are mostly hoodrats, with no desire to find a job, let alone contribute to air travel anytime soon.
If you're not familiar with hoodrats, here's a good example of one riding the MARTA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXz-tlK2pkI

- - -

If anything, the build-up at SEA, and inclusion of the MSP hub, don't bond well for significant future growth at SLC. However... DL seems more interested in adding connecting pieces to establish a t-pac network than to build out a domestic hub. It's doubtful DL has the desire, or space, to turn SEA into a full-service hub.

Do you have any idea how much $$$ each spends on air travel?

Chalky White

nope.

dtwtransport

Does anyone know which terminal AS will use at DTW?

Ignore -- I see I am late to the party with discussion on another thread.

indufan

You don't have to like the eastern bias in this country but it exists. DTW isn't going anyplace...but one thing to keep in mind is that ATL is only about 500 miles from DTW too. Pretty much all major markets in the entire country are served from both ATL and DTW. Most of them are still served by MSP too. It seems to be working for them. History says that distance between the hubs isn't a big factory. CVG and ATL as far as air travel goes are practically on top of each other. Yes, they worked well for a long time. Of course, Delta hardly needed ATL, MEM, CVG, and DTW which again are all pretty close to each other. Keeping two out of four aren't bad. What MSP brings to the picture domestically is the ability to serve markets like GEG that have a tough time from the more eastern hubs.

Deadtail

MSP is a moneymaker. If it had significant competition and made less money, it would go the way of CVG and MEM.