On UA and AA you can still use miles to UG international flights from much lower fares. There is a co-pay but even so the total cost is way less than a YBM fare. DL's J product is better than UA's or AA's, but any J is better than Y.

Have a number of people in my office that have already been on the phone with AA for status match. I work in an industry (financial services) with a large number of highly paid workers. On company business, it's coach no matter who (I've been on flights were some of the executive team (not DL frequent fliers) sat in back while I was up front). However, those who are DL frequent fliers generally send their other business travel to DL as well, which includes int'l J (which is permitted), as well as their personal travel (and there are quite a number of people who buy their own J tickets for personal int'l travel, usually with their families). With the practical loss of transcon upgrades, DL will lose these...many are or will be headed to AA, which (notwithstanding the merger) is an increasingly better alternative in NY.

And for those who talk about preserving the integrity of J on transcons and corporate contracts and whatnot, I don't see it. For the most part (and especially given the increase capacity on the transcons), DMs have not been taking any seats away from anyone. Unless the J cabin is wide open, these upgrades only happen at the gate, and only at boarding. So this process accomodates even the most last minute purchase. So, no seat taken away from any paying pax.

Now, rather than having any empty seats go to DMs, they will go to non-revs. On these routes above all, this make sense why? And, if there is an op-up situation (which could now happen on these routes more frequently), who gets moved up first...the DM. (Thanks to Mrs. TrojanTraveler to pointing this one out to me.)

I fail to see any of the logic in this. They could have just restricted complimentary upgrades to DMs. Why didn't they? (Yes, I do realize it sucks for PMs.)

Maybe the next step is to lower fares a bit on those routes so they can fill more of the BE cabin with paid BE fares. I guess this might be called BE Monetization, but I've never used the expression FCM because people on this forum use "monetization" like it's a dirty word. Of course they're monetizing it, that's the product they sell.

Option 2 is to start selling gate UGs.

If I'm wrong and they don't plan to adjust fares to fill the cabin with paid BE tickets or sell gate UGs, I guess it'll be employee class like int'l F is on many *A airlines.

Agree, I'd pay that every time if I flew those routes.

DL could lower the BE fares on these routes if they want to do so independently of allowing elite free upgrades, especially since these upgrades are done at the gate after check in closes for the flight. FCM is independent of upgrade policy, although FCM tends to mean that fewer upgrades are available.

If you tell someone that there's absolutely no chance of an upgrade versus a small chance, a very few will buy the premium cabin ticket, some won't change their strategy, and some will buy (coach or FC) from a competitor. Or is DL betting that its customers are irrational about zero probabilities and will suddenly pay lots and lots to DL as a result of DL announcing that the probability is zero?

I'm glad you got a refund. DL did the right thing there.

Ditto. Monetization keeps the airline in business. Monetization gets me F seats more regularly.

Another poster has already obtained a full refund in this situation. You should do the same if you wish; if it is not granted, do a chargeback on your credit card.

No way.

I see what you are saying but I'm betting there are a lot of people who see a $2,000 BE fare vs a $200 Y fare and say, "I'll take the shot at the UG" but who might buy BE in advance if it were only $1,000. (Numbers pulled out of thin air to illustrate the point.) DL makes less profit on the $1,000 BE ticket but it's still much more profit than the Y ticket.

No. The removal of 7 J from the 777s will have a bigger impact than GUC usage. Not that it matters.

No need to pull numbers out of thin air. B6 has priced their J product at around $600/ow. VX starts theirs ludicrously high, but offers DoD upgrades at $400 or less (depending on route, and on top of your Y fare), with elites getting access at T-24 and everyone else at T-6.

With DL, it's now $$$$$$$, use a GUC (but only if you're a DM), or sit in Y.

Delta makes no profit on an empty BE seat.

Yeah - I called to have the segments split, and the cost would have been 1K in additional fare.

I just don't get the logic. MSP-SFO is UGable, SFO-HNL is UGable. MSP-HNL is not. Just dumb, really. An FO could get UG on each flight, while a through DM won't. Where is the logic?

The logic is take, not give.

Remember too, 1st post sez "some changes" as I suspect there'll be more as "death by 1000 cuts" while feeding "pax wars" continue.

Does anybody really believe they're gonna be happy to stop at BE tcon UG's?

Maybe not this year, but there's always next year!

The dirty shame here is how these UG changes affect status "previously earned" under different terms/conditions. Seems like a bait & switch swindle to my simple way of doing business....

Unless you get one of the 90% of phone agents that don't know how to properly code a certificate upgrade