Delta Cancels DTW-HKG effective August 30th
Jun 24, 2012, 7:43 am
#46
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That sucks because connecting in NRT is about as miserable as it gets. Maybe one day Delta will try out ATL-HKG. I would think that would be a very profitable flight, especially since the southeast is lacking an option to southern China direct. I would think with the large Hong Kong/Chinese population in the southeast this would be very profitable.
Jun 24, 2012, 8:00 am
#47
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Jun 24, 2012, 8:41 am
#48
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I heard that this route will go seasonal and the 777 will likely fly somewhere with high offseason demand (like south america since its the peak season down there). Ultra long haul flights are hard to make money on, I can't even imagine how bad they must be in sept/oct
Maybe DL will wait for/if their 787's are delivered to restart the route and make it daily.
Jun 24, 2012, 9:01 am
#49
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That's going to be a LONG wait. While DL did continue it's 787 program in-house, they gave up their launch position in line. DL pushed deliveries to 2020 back two years ago. So there's that. Want to fly the 787 somewhere then look to UA in September or NH or JL right now.
Jun 24, 2012, 9:09 am
#50
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That's going to be a LONG wait. While DL did continue it's 787 program in-house, they gave up their launch position in line. DL pushed deliveries to 2020 back two years ago. So there's that. Want to fly the 787 somewhere then look to UA in September or NH or JL right now.
Jun 24, 2012, 9:29 am
#51
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Or lower cost...any West Coast gateway would be cheaper to operate from than DTW or ATL or JFK, etc.
Ultimately, DTW-HKG is an ultra-long-haul (ULH) route and is very expensive to operate - fuel, crews (requiring four pilots, longer mandatory rest time between trips thus lowering crew productivity, etc.), fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel....in the new fuel environment, all ULHs are under increasing scrutiny and very few will 'make it'...
UA has traditionally been stronger/bigger in China/Hong Kong than NW (and now DL), just as NW(DL) has traditionally been stronger/bigger in Japan. In addition, just because UA continues to hang on to those nonstops does not mean they are all profitable. In Q1 2012, UA specifically blamed its China/HKG services for its lackluster RASM performance in the Pacific, and cited CX's entrance into ORD-HKG as one of the reasons as well....
Ultimately, DTW-HKG is an ultra-long-haul (ULH) route and is very expensive to operate - fuel, crews (requiring four pilots, longer mandatory rest time between trips thus lowering crew productivity, etc.), fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel....in the new fuel environment, all ULHs are under increasing scrutiny and very few will 'make it'...
UA has traditionally been stronger/bigger in China/Hong Kong than NW (and now DL), just as NW(DL) has traditionally been stronger/bigger in Japan. In addition, just because UA continues to hang on to those nonstops does not mean they are all profitable. In Q1 2012, UA specifically blamed its China/HKG services for its lackluster RASM performance in the Pacific, and cited CX's entrance into ORD-HKG as one of the reasons as well....
AA can provide easy connections from the Midwest/East through ORD or JFK now on Cathy which provides the best passenger experience with service. In Asia NW was always known for the worst service and then DL.
With UA providing nonstop service from NRT, SFO, ORD, EWR to HKG they can connect almost any domestic station except those only served by IAH and DEN with one-stop service to HKG. Star leads in overflying Japan, but with ANA, and UA's 8 soon to be 9 gateway cities with DEN they provide great coverage to Japan and even more one-stop service to HKG using NRT and their Star partner ANA. DL is more effctive to Europe it seems.
Jun 24, 2012, 9:54 am
#52
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With United's Guam hub UA's presence is Japan has increased. Along with new nonstops to EWR and IAH and soon DEN. I do not think DL can compete effectively to China against UA/Star and AA/Oneworld.
AA can provide easy connections from the Midwest/East through ORD or JFK now on Cathy which provides the best passenger experience with service. In Asia NW was always known for the worst service and then DL.
With UA providing nonstop service from NRT, SFO, ORD, EWR to HKG they can connect almost any domestic station except those only served by IAH and DEN with one-stop service to HKG. Star leads in overflying Japan, but with ANA, and UA's 8 soon to be 9 gateway cities with DEN they provide great coverage to Japan and even more one-stop service to HKG using NRT and their Star partner ANA. DL is more effctive to Europe it seems.
AA can provide easy connections from the Midwest/East through ORD or JFK now on Cathy which provides the best passenger experience with service. In Asia NW was always known for the worst service and then DL.
With UA providing nonstop service from NRT, SFO, ORD, EWR to HKG they can connect almost any domestic station except those only served by IAH and DEN with one-stop service to HKG. Star leads in overflying Japan, but with ANA, and UA's 8 soon to be 9 gateway cities with DEN they provide great coverage to Japan and even more one-stop service to HKG using NRT and their Star partner ANA. DL is more effctive to Europe it seems.
Jun 24, 2012, 10:00 am
#53
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If DTW-HKG nonstop didn't work, SLC-HKG certainly wouldn't.
SEA-HKG might make sense given their attempt to grow SEA into a mini-transpac hub, but the domestic "feeder" connections via SEA are simply not what DTW offers, so there would have to be strong local demand, IMO, to support SEA-HKG.
SEA-HKG might make sense given their attempt to grow SEA into a mini-transpac hub, but the domestic "feeder" connections via SEA are simply not what DTW offers, so there would have to be strong local demand, IMO, to support SEA-HKG.
UGH
Jun 24, 2012, 10:10 am
#54
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+1. ST has 2 mainland Chinese carriers, plus China Airlines in Taiwan and Korean, which both offer quite a few Chinese destinations. *A has 1 mainland carrier, plus ANA in Japan and Asiana in Korea. Singapore has some service to mainland China. OW is the worst off, with only one airline in some way associated with mainland China (Cathay Pacific) and Japan Airlines in Japan. So I'd say ST has more than a fighting chance in China.
Jun 24, 2012, 10:25 am
#55
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?It's not gonna happens. BOS-LHR is here to stay. They aren't discontinue.
Jun 24, 2012, 12:05 pm
#56
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+1. ST has 2 mainland Chinese carriers, plus China Airlines in Taiwan and Korean, which both offer quite a few Chinese destinations. *A has 1 mainland carrier, plus ANA in Japan and Asiana in Korea. Singapore has some service to mainland China. OW is the worst off, with only one airline in some way associated with mainland China (Cathay Pacific) and Japan Airlines in Japan. So I'd say ST has more than a fighting chance in China.
Jun 24, 2012, 12:08 pm
#57
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That sucks because connecting in NRT is about as miserable as it gets. Maybe one day Delta will try out ATL-HKG. I would think that would be a very profitable flight, especially since the southeast is lacking an option to southern China direct. I would think with the large Hong Kong/Chinese population in the southeast this would be very profitable.
Jun 24, 2012, 12:38 pm
#58
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fwiw, this was posted on airliners.net:
My guess if they do in fact reinstate a direct flight to HKG.
1. JFK
2. SEA
3. SLC
4. LAX
5. ATL
JFK might already be a saturated market, but so is NRT and they seem to make it work. Of course HKG won't have the connections that NRT has.
Seattle would naturally be my first choice, but do they have enough 1 stop connections to maintain the flight? Seems like a large amount of people would have to make two stops in order to reach HKG.
SLC might not seem like a great route due to the lack of O&D traffic, and the performance of NRT. With HKG, there won't be so many other airports to compete with on flights like there is with NRT. It could also provide many 1 stop routes from the SE, NE, SW, Midwest, and Texas without having to backtrack too much, if any at all. I would definitely prefer a MCO-SLC-HKG route over any other connection offered, including DTW. Unfortunately since there is most likely a small amount of O&D, we won't see this flight.
I believe LAX only has one airline offering a non-stop flight to HKG, albeit three times daily with CX. But there must be a reason that other airlines such as UA do not fly this route.
Is there a large enough market from the SE USA to HKG that won't allow too much backtracking as ATL would?
DTW-HKG is to be moved to another city in the near future. I fly this route frequently, but do not have the authoriity to "announce" the location. Most of my flights are full, but apparently there are other cities that may get a better yield. This from the top level management.Sorry, I can't say anymore than that. HKG-DTW has various options. It will be reallocated to a higher yield location. take your pick airliners! (no-it is not just throught NRT)
1. JFK
2. SEA
3. SLC
4. LAX
5. ATL
JFK might already be a saturated market, but so is NRT and they seem to make it work. Of course HKG won't have the connections that NRT has.
Seattle would naturally be my first choice, but do they have enough 1 stop connections to maintain the flight? Seems like a large amount of people would have to make two stops in order to reach HKG.
SLC might not seem like a great route due to the lack of O&D traffic, and the performance of NRT. With HKG, there won't be so many other airports to compete with on flights like there is with NRT. It could also provide many 1 stop routes from the SE, NE, SW, Midwest, and Texas without having to backtrack too much, if any at all. I would definitely prefer a MCO-SLC-HKG route over any other connection offered, including DTW. Unfortunately since there is most likely a small amount of O&D, we won't see this flight.
I believe LAX only has one airline offering a non-stop flight to HKG, albeit three times daily with CX. But there must be a reason that other airlines such as UA do not fly this route.
Is there a large enough market from the SE USA to HKG that won't allow too much backtracking as ATL would?
Jun 24, 2012, 12:51 pm
#59
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But then again, I would not think SLC-CDG would continue daily as long as it has!
Jun 24, 2012, 12:57 pm
#60
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SLC is somewhat appealing but greatly suffers from lack of O&D traffic. Perhaps a well-timed DTW-SLC-HKG could make it work, if the proper timing could be found.
LAX is always an obvious choice, but DL has issues attracting traffic in LAX for whatever reason (perhaps lack of a well-defined LAX strategy over the years -- hub, mini-hub, focus city, or what?).