Delta Cancels DTW-HKG effective August 30th
Jun 28, 2012, 10:31 pm
#121
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Any way DL could do a 1-stop from NYC (possibly SEA) a la CX? I would think you'd get the benefit of some transcon traffic to fill the plane as well as two domestic feeder cities en route to HKG, and possibly the ability to use a 332 if needed?
**Disclaimer: I know nothing about these sorts of things. Just passing by...
**Disclaimer: I know nothing about these sorts of things. Just passing by...
Jun 29, 2012, 11:08 am
#122
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There was a thread on airliners.net a year or two ago (unfortunately I can't find it now) that said Atlanta-Shanghai O&D was 55 PDEW. So while it is still a rather small market, it's a far cry from the 23 PDEW to all of China back in 2007, as stated earlier in this thread. I suspect that in a few years a 3-4 weekly 787 might be viable, should someone choose to fly it.
Anyway, to get back on topic, most of the a.net chatter seems to indicate that DTW-HKG is moving to JFK.
Anyway, to get back on topic, most of the a.net chatter seems to indicate that DTW-HKG is moving to JFK.
The largest Southeast U.S.-Asia markets, in order, are:
ATLICN
MCONRT
ATLNRT
MIAMNL
MIAHKG
Jun 29, 2012, 11:25 am
#123
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Jun 29, 2012, 11:42 am
#124
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Jun 29, 2012, 12:07 pm
#125
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DL never flown SEA-HKG but doesn't mean others. I suggest you should read some airline route history first !
SEA-HKG was originally a UA route in the early 80s, it was the first UA TPAC route ever using a swapped CP DC10-30. It was never profitable and when UA purchase the entire PA TPAC more profitable routes like SFO-HKG, UA quickly dump it, then NW picked that up. Since UA didn't do well on it, same went with NW.
If there is enough loads for SEA-HKG, CX would have done it a long time ago. Notice the CX's N. America only goes to YYZ/YYR/SFO/LAX/JFK for a very long time, not until last year it starts ORD, so you know where the HKG traffic comes from.
And if you know some DL's history, DL did fly to HKG years ago using L1011-500 then MD11, but it was never out of SEA, it was LAX-HKG. LAX-HKG always have competition with CX, and even back then UA still had LAX-HKG. You can see despite competition, they would still fly LAX-HKG instead of SEA-HKG, does it tell you something ?
Last edited by ORDnHKG; Jun 29, 2012 at 12:14 pm
Jun 29, 2012, 12:13 pm
#126
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Your logic totally make ZERO sense, just because an airline doesn't fly a route currently, doesn't mean the new starter will do well on it.
DL never flown SEA-HKG but doesn't mean others. I suggest you should read some airline route history first !
SEA-HKG was originally a UA route in the early 80s, it was the first UA TPAC route ever using a swapped CP DC10-30. It was never profitable and when UA purchase the entire PA TPAC more profitable routes like SFO-HKG, UA quickly dump it, then NW picked that up. Since UA didn't do well on it, same went with NW.
If there is enough loads for SEA-HKG, CX would have done it a long time ago. Notice the CX's N. America only goes to YYZ/YYR/SFO/LAX/JFK for a very long time, not until last year it starts ORD, so you know where the HKG traffic goes.
DL never flown SEA-HKG but doesn't mean others. I suggest you should read some airline route history first !
SEA-HKG was originally a UA route in the early 80s, it was the first UA TPAC route ever using a swapped CP DC10-30. It was never profitable and when UA purchase the entire PA TPAC more profitable routes like SFO-HKG, UA quickly dump it, then NW picked that up. Since UA didn't do well on it, same went with NW.
If there is enough loads for SEA-HKG, CX would have done it a long time ago. Notice the CX's N. America only goes to YYZ/YYR/SFO/LAX/JFK for a very long time, not until last year it starts ORD, so you know where the HKG traffic goes.
Jun 29, 2012, 12:19 pm
#127
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Your logic totally make ZERO sense, just because an airline doesn't fly a route currently, doesn't mean the new starter will do well on it.
DL never flown SEA-HKG but doesn't mean others. I suggest you should read some airline route history first !
SEA-HKG was originally a UA route in the early 80s, it was the first UA TPAC route ever using a swapped CP DC10-30. It was never profitable and when UA purchase the entire PA TPAC more profitable routes like SFO-HKG, UA quickly dump it, then NW picked that up. Since UA didn't do well on it, same went with NW.
If there is enough loads for SEA-HKG, CX would have done it a long time ago. Notice the CX's N. America only goes to YYZ/YYR/SFO/LAX/JFK for a very long time, not until last year it starts ORD, so you know where the HKG traffic comes from.
And if you know some DL's history, DL did fly to HKG years ago using L1011-500 then MD11, but it was never out of SEA, it was LAX-HKG. LAX-HKG always have competition with CX, and even back then UA still had LAX-HKG. You can see despite competition, they would still fly LAX-HKG instead of SEA-HKG, does it tell you something ?
DL never flown SEA-HKG but doesn't mean others. I suggest you should read some airline route history first !
SEA-HKG was originally a UA route in the early 80s, it was the first UA TPAC route ever using a swapped CP DC10-30. It was never profitable and when UA purchase the entire PA TPAC more profitable routes like SFO-HKG, UA quickly dump it, then NW picked that up. Since UA didn't do well on it, same went with NW.
If there is enough loads for SEA-HKG, CX would have done it a long time ago. Notice the CX's N. America only goes to YYZ/YYR/SFO/LAX/JFK for a very long time, not until last year it starts ORD, so you know where the HKG traffic comes from.
And if you know some DL's history, DL did fly to HKG years ago using L1011-500 then MD11, but it was never out of SEA, it was LAX-HKG. LAX-HKG always have competition with CX, and even back then UA still had LAX-HKG. You can see despite competition, they would still fly LAX-HKG instead of SEA-HKG, does it tell you something ?
Otherwise, spot on.
Here's hoping for HKG-JFK.
Jun 29, 2012, 12:21 pm
#128
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For a while it was LAX-ANC-HKG. And for a time DL was mileage partner with UA--I'm not sure if it overlapped with the LAX-HKG service.
Jun 29, 2012, 2:19 pm
#129
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Your logic totally make ZERO sense, just because an airline doesn't fly a route currently, doesn't mean the new starter will do well on it.
....
SEA-HKG was originally a UA route in the early 80s, it was the first UA TPAC route ever using a swapped CP DC10-30. It was never profitable and when UA purchase the entire PA TPAC more profitable routes like SFO-HKG, UA quickly dump it, then NW picked that up. Since UA didn't do well on it, same went with NW.
If there is enough loads for SEA-HKG, CX would have done it a long time ago. Notice the CX's N. America only goes to YYZ/YYR/SFO/LAX/JFK for a very long time, not until last year it starts ORD, so you know where the HKG traffic comes from.
And if you know some DL's history, DL did fly to HKG years ago using L1011-500 then MD11, but it was never out of SEA, it was LAX-HKG. LAX-HKG always have competition with CX, and even back then UA still had LAX-HKG. You can see despite competition, they would still fly LAX-HKG instead of SEA-HKG, does it tell you something ?
....
SEA-HKG was originally a UA route in the early 80s, it was the first UA TPAC route ever using a swapped CP DC10-30. It was never profitable and when UA purchase the entire PA TPAC more profitable routes like SFO-HKG, UA quickly dump it, then NW picked that up. Since UA didn't do well on it, same went with NW.
If there is enough loads for SEA-HKG, CX would have done it a long time ago. Notice the CX's N. America only goes to YYZ/YYR/SFO/LAX/JFK for a very long time, not until last year it starts ORD, so you know where the HKG traffic comes from.
And if you know some DL's history, DL did fly to HKG years ago using L1011-500 then MD11, but it was never out of SEA, it was LAX-HKG. LAX-HKG always have competition with CX, and even back then UA still had LAX-HKG. You can see despite competition, they would still fly LAX-HKG instead of SEA-HKG, does it tell you something ?
On a 1x daily route the 788 (depending on configuration) needs between 40,000-80,500 less seats filled compared to a 777.
Jun 30, 2012, 11:13 am
#130
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Wasn't that quick. I flew SEA-HKG (later using 747SP, occasionally not making it westbound without a fuel stop) in 1988 and 1991. PA left as early as 1986, IIRC.
Those are the only major centers of HK population--the only places you'll find full-time HK newspapers (daily w/ local office) and Cantonese radio stations (>12 h/d).
For a while it was LAX-ANC-HKG. And for a time DL was mileage partner with UA--I'm not sure if it overlapped with the LAX-HKG service.
Those are the only major centers of HK population--the only places you'll find full-time HK newspapers (daily w/ local office) and Cantonese radio stations (>12 h/d).
For a while it was LAX-ANC-HKG. And for a time DL was mileage partner with UA--I'm not sure if it overlapped with the LAX-HKG service.
I know people that came from CAN/SZX/SGN/HAN/HAK that can speak Cantonese, but the main one is HKG.
I can get Chinese newspapers in other Canadian cities too (YYC/YEG being an example, with dushi, ga wah bo, etc.)
Jun 30, 2012, 12:29 pm
#131
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Further (off-topic here) it's not clear that a 787 on a route between big hubs, where connections on big capacity aircraft can be expected, will make more money than a 787 on a niche route (NYC-Zurich for the banker traffic, for example).
Jun 30, 2012, 10:43 pm
#133
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The Cantonese speaking population in YVR comes from many places, though. I know people that came from CAN/SZX/SGN/HAN/HAK that can speak Cantonese, but the main one is HKG. I can get Chinese newspapers in other Canadian cities too (YYC/YEG being an example, with dushi, ga wah bo, etc.)
In secondary cities, daily papers are often trucked/flown in from the print shops in those five cities, e.g. LAS, HNL, SEA (from LAX/SFO etc.) Local papers are rarely daily. I've seen a paper in LAS with an ad selling KE LAS-ICN, i.e. one stops to many Chinese cities--and no need to go through LAX.
Jul 2, 2012, 7:46 am
#134
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UA over Cathay........Not a chance!
ORD HKG on CX
ORD HKG on CX
That would make sense. When I flew this route in July and August of last year, peak season for Asia, it was very full. November, not so much. In August things were actually so packed that I scored the op-up of legend: upgraded to 777 BE for the 14-hour flight. And my co-worker, on a separate ticket but the same flight, got the op-up too! And the most surprising part: we were both FOs at the time! 
That op-up seems to have used up most of my upgrade karma but I don't care... it was worth it.
Either way this is going to be a huge inconvenience for a lot of people. This route was the only reason I chose DL over UA. Now with UA having ORD-HKG direct, I may be forced to move to UA for most of my travel. 11 PM arrival on the connection from NRT just does not cut it
That, or I can find a new job that doesn't require me flying to HKG multiple times per year. Already working on that, but it may be too late....
That op-up seems to have used up most of my upgrade karma but I don't care... it was worth it.Either way this is going to be a huge inconvenience for a lot of people. This route was the only reason I chose DL over UA. Now with UA having ORD-HKG direct, I may be forced to move to UA for most of my travel. 11 PM arrival on the connection from NRT just does not cut it
That, or I can find a new job that doesn't require me flying to HKG multiple times per year. Already working on that, but it may be too late....
Jul 2, 2012, 3:05 pm
#135
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I think you are just confusing 27 PDEW with 55 daily passengers total, which is about right. PDEW stands for per day, each way.