AAerSTL

That's what I thought but it's interesting DL is using it several times each day on routes like ATL-EWR. I could understand an odd turn between flights but nonetheless great for the passengers on that route.

GW McLintock

Just a side note, it's gonna be a bit TWA reunion! Some of the 717s are gonna join their long-lost B757-231 (75E) buddies!

-J.

adamj023

False. Gulfstream is one of the best business class jets in the business and they chose the Rolls Royce engine for their own jets. Gulfstream doesn't pick junk on its aircraft. It picks the best out on the market from the best engineers. They are very picky and demanding.


Here is the specs on the BR715 engines that are in the Boeing 717:
http://www.rolls-royce.com/Images/br715_tcm92-5747.pdf

Gulfstream jets are sold at premium prices and are highly regarded by their pilots and owners and they use the 725 model of this engine in the G650 for instance. A beautiful plane and by far one of the best business class jets in the industry. There are other good business class jets but the Gulfstream is one of my favorites. Extremely well made, designed and the like.

Delta is getting really good stuff here and they know it. For competitors who still have turboprop regional flights, this will surely put a dent in the competition. I am so glad they finally got over the turboprop is better philosophy and we will now start seeing 717s flying these routes.

Boeing 717 is essentially a passenger jet version instead of a business class jet but just like the Gulfstream is an amazing plane based on the McDonnell Douglas design philosophy. Business class jets are smaller and more nimble and produced in fewer quantities.

Yes this engine design from rolls royce is rock solid and is the best engine you can get on a MD airframe. The IAE's used on the MD90's that Delta acquired were also terrific engines time tested with other airline fleets as well. If I had a choice I would rather be on the 717 than a MD90 although both aircraft are quite good. The 717 is smaller than the MD90.

AirTran had amazing reliability with these jets as we saw. The problem with Southwest and these jets were essentially that they wanted a unified 737 fleet and the 737-800 series is quite frankly a larger jet and obviously different range requirements could have played out a factor too but what degree I don't know.

With Delta owning the 717s they will be able to use the 717s on better routes than AirTran was using them for and more use these aircraft to their full abilities.

I am hoping to see this 717 @ La Guardia and JFK Airports. I presume since it is their largest jet for regional routes bigger than the regionals it replaces, it will make it to their new La Guardia hub here. Ive always believed Delta should be flying more regionals in house and 717 is the way to do it.

N830MH

Actually, DL has 10 73G aircraft and not 12.

adamj023

Didn't mean to make it seem like I meant that Gulfstream was designed by MD engineers. But both Gulfstream and MD both make terrific jets and the engine choices for the 717 and Gulfstream G650 just happened to be similiar and they are outstanding engines.

Aerospace engineers make excellent models across the board but Delta's choice of the 717 shows they made the right decision here.

And I do believe aviation is the best its been these days, and if only regular folks had access to Gulfstream jets like the G650 which are extraordinarily pricey, but Delta giving commercial passengers access to seats on a 717 and keeping these well designed planes in service is indeed the right move.

PA42

Stay on topic, im not talking about about the validity of the 717s in the SWA fleet. Im talking about the BR715 on the 717. Who are you talking about when you say "we saw"? Do you happen to work for FL, and if so where?

"Full abilities." Such as what?

Im not at the NBAA buying a G650, why are you telling me what engineers Gulfstream hires?

hazelrah

That's not really the point is it? The point is the large cost savings that Southwest realizes from operating and maintaining a single equipment type, i.e. 737s.

apodo77

I flew on a 717 three times from DFW-MKE on Midwest Express and was not a fan.

Even in the 2-2 configuration it felt really cramped.

jlemon

Ah, but not as cramped as a CRJ200 I'd be willing to wager.....

If DL really does replace some CRJ200 frequencies with B717 flights, I think it will be an improvement.....not to the mention the fact the 717 will have F as well as extra legroom in the enhanced economy section of the airplane.

BTW, flew on a Midwest Express MD-80 SFO-MKE r/t some years ago and thought the legroom was just fine....not to mention the nice service including freshly baked cookies.

Back to DL, I'm hopeful that we may see the 717 deployed on some routes that are strictly served by DL Connection RJ aircraft at the present.....time will tell, of course.

Herb687

Huh?

I'm trying to parse the quoted paragraph. What exactly are you arguing?

Gulfstreams are based on McDD design philosophy???

Boeing 717s are passenger jet versions of a business jet???


The only similarity I see between the B717 and Gulfstreams (or any bizjets for that matter) is the selection of the RR BR715-series engine. Well that and they all have wings, and tails, and avionics...

Herb687

I haven't flown on a 717 but the MD-80/90 has by far the noisiest first class cabin of any plane I have flown in recent memory. Yes, it's all slipstream noise and not engine noise, but as far as I'm concerned noise is noise.

Noise is noise, and at cruise speeds there's plenty of it in the first class cabin of an MD-80.

Given that the nose cone and nose/fuselage join is likely the same on a 717 as MD-80/90, I would expect the 717 to have a similar noise profile inside the front part of the cabin.

adamj023

The DC9, MD8x,9x (includes 717) design principles are rock solid.

All aircraft have different noise profiles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9voERIlpmY

That is the noise by the engines on the 717. They have been certified with low noise requirements and meet the regulatory standards.

They are definitely lower volume than the older MD jets.

Compare and contrast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chhbv...eature=related

The older DC9's have a louder more defined sound.

The engine design on the 717 means noise spreads through the cabin more. This is true and it is part of the MD design principle because of where the engines are located relative to the cabin so more noise gets inside. But if you are hearing the noise of the jet from outside, the noise profile on the newer jets are going to be much lower than an overhead older jet.

Hawaiian Airlines flies the 717 and did want to know if cabin mods could have been done to make them quieter. If it can with more insulating materials, Delta upon acquisition will likely also do this since it has to redo the interiors anyways. Easy mod after the ripout occurs to configure these planes to Delta standards. If just insulation keeps customers happier, why wouldn't Delta do it. Up to them of course but it seems like if adding some insulation makes customers happier and they will prefer Delta more, might as well add it.

jlemon

"MD11 noise from the engines....."

What on earth are you referring to??

I thought we were discussing the B717.....

adamj023

Typo. The MD11 is a trijet. Totally different noise profile, and being phased out of passenger usage by the airlines.

I was thinking of the KLM phaseout at the same time I said MD11 on an unrelated note. KLM is phasing out their remaining MD11's.

Delta is getting some young 717's here as well as older ones but the advantage here is they are subleasing and so these planes will eventually be returned and then they will get other aircraft at a later time that better fits their strategy.

Remember the leases expire: According to their lease agreements, they expire between 2017 and 2024.

So the oldest 717s will be used till 2017 by Delta and the newer ones till 2024. They are just buying some time with these 717's.

Essentially it is a 4 year sublease on the oldest 717's. After the lease terms are up, Delta is free to either release or acquire new aircraft and when these leases expire Delta will have a clearer picture of its financials and what it will need for its future needs. A lot can happen during that time frame.

PA42

Where do you work? You cant make false statements about reliability of the BR715 on the 717 and get away with it by sounding like a RR/BMW rep. Again please tell us what your professional experience is with this engine on the 717.

If you want to be technical its the evolution of the BR710 on the 717 which is the BR715 (30 series)...58 inch fan diamater, different core and bypass ratio. What is good on a business jet isnt necessarily good when upsized (or downsized) to commercial aviation especially in high cycle situations.