adamj023

"O'Malley's letter didn't specify what types of planes Delta would buy, although he said it would increase the ratio of domestic flying on Delta's main fleet relative to flying by regional partners by 57 percent over the life of the contract."

While I would admit owning the 717's would allow growth in their domestic owned fleet, it seems like other than the 737-900ER order and the delayed 787 order, Delta has only acquired used aircraft. Additional MD90s and now used 717's.

MSPeconomist

Why not keep the NW DC-9s that are paid for and have been well maintained? LCCs tend to fly lots of quick turns which are much harder on the aircraft as a general rule. What would be the configuration of these birds, FC versus coach seats? As bad as the A320/319 mainline?

pbarnette

Because fuel is the single largest expense DL has, approaching 30% of total opex in Q1?

I would also note that this discussion of fleet commonality would seem to be largely a non-issue if DL actually bought all 88 of the planes. That seems like more than enough planes to capture significant economies of scale, especially if the planes were deployed from one or two hubs.

adamj023

Do the 717 actually fit the size requirements Delta needs based on capacity?

Essentially buying or leasing used 717's gives Delta access to these planes and then when another plane type is out which reduces fuel costs even more Delta can acquire those.

With Southwest wanting to grow size and scope, will it be able to give up a full 88 717's? It obviously has 737's right now, but Delta needs those 100 737-900ER's and is not going to give those to Southwest. Southwest would have to cut its route network significantly if it were to take a full 88 planes out of the combined fleet.

So in reality I don't see how Southwest can just give up 88 jets.

According to their lease agreements, they expire between 2017 and 2024.

pbarnette

In the context of plans to reduce small RJ flying offset by growth in 76-seat RJs and mainline flying, then I suspect the 717 might fill a gap.

Regardless, I don't make any claims that DL will or won't buy the planes. Others have speculated on that point, I've merely offered that fuel costs are high enough to potentially trump incremental capital costs vs flying DC-9s and that a fleet of 88 aircraft delivers economies of scale.

Well, then, I didn't realize that you don't see how WN can just give up 88 jets. That changes everything, doesn't it? Might I suggest you get on the phone to Gary Kelly and let him know that he should stop telling people that this is exactly what they are going to do?

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...7-buyer-search

While you are at it, you should probably remind Gary (I assume you are on a first-name basis?) that his plans to keep the fleet at around 700 planes and his delays of delivery of new aircraft might not qualify as growing in size and scope.

DL2SXM

when I read the title to this thread, I fully expected to read something about the A380. That, is a bigger plane then any they currently have.

BobH

It's all in where you set your baseline --- if it's CRJ 200's, 717's are bigger and nicer.

<lol>

Bob H

3Cforme

In response to an analysts's question on the 1Q2012 earnings conference call (IIRC), DL (and I don't recall whom) steadfastly declined to give numbers or timetables for the ongoing reduction of 50-seater flying. This helps quantify it a bit.

RSSrsvp

Needless to say if I had a choice between flying on a RJ or a 717 it would be the 717 hands down every time! ^

Plus I would rather have a mainline pilot taking me to my destination. @:-)

DL2SXM

really? Then you might want to read this interesting article

The standards for regional and large international airlines are set by the FAA and are the same. All airlines have to meet or exceed the Federal Aviation Regulations that pertain to airlines, Part 121.

Some regional pilots have less experience than most of the large airline pilots, however, there are some very experienced pilots flying for regional airlines. One of the pilots I have met with the highest number of hours flown worked for a regional airline



http://travel.usatoday.com/experts/c...ers/54950500/1

T.J. Bender

Economy seat pitch on a CRJ (any model): 31"
Economy seat pitch on an ERJ/E-Jet: 31"
Economy seat pitch on an AirTran 717: 30"

If the flight is going to be of any significant length (and knowing DL, these will be used on flights as long as ATL-DEN, SLC-ORD and MSP-PHX), I'll take all but the CRJ100/200 over a 717. DL's in a catch-22 situation with 717s. Adjusting the pitch in coach would require them to kill the 37" pitch in F, maybe even kill an entire row of F off, unless they want to hurt CASM by removing Y seats.

dcline414

If these would be mainline equipment, they'll have to remove a row anyway to install EC, which they have committed to rolling out on all 2-cabin equipment by this Summer.

I guess it would depend on the routes if they wanted to reduce FC, but it's already only 3 rows of 4 so I can't see them cutting that further.

The FL config has 21 rows of Y. If they took out one row, that leaves 20 rows: 3 rows of EC and 17 rows of E-. They could make the pitch on the 17 E- seats 31" to match the rest of the fleet and make the pitch 34" for the three rows of EC. That would require 29", while they would have 30" from removing the row of Y.

That's the only way I can see this being a viable plane for DL to fly. I know plenty of tall ATL-based pax that avoid FL just for their horrible pitch.

wetrat0

I have flown the AirTran 717 in the past quite a few times and found the aircraft to be very nice. It is quiet, especially in the front, and the overhead bin size is great. It has a spacious "feel" even if the pitch is somewhat low. For the type of route it would most likely be used on, I would put it on par with E170 and definitely prefer it to any kind of small regional. I would also prefer it to the 737 or 320 in coach because of the 2x3 configuration instead of 3x3.

3Cforme

You start with a fallacy: Delta keeping the current F and Y pitch and row counts of the FL configuration.

There's little probability of that. Economy Comfort is rolling out to all Delta 2-class planes, RJs included. The 717s would not be an exception.

You ignore the shortage of shoulder room on RJs, a function of slim armrests (a statistic not disclosed by seat width), and proximity of seats to side walls. I'll take a 717 in coach vs. CR7/CR9 every day of the week.

sbagdon

Darned good post. Thx.

Repeat it often... there's no bad deals, only bad prices. If DL can get them inexpensively enough, and if a low price balances out the fuel expense, and it fits their strategy, then why not? DC-9s ran the DTW-ORD for years, fully-loaded, with business pax.