Spiff

I have. I had 6 longhaul J segments on AA last month. I was very happy and I was able to use my AA SWUs on fairly low fares. Consequently, I have some high-revenue travel next month that also went to AA, not DL.

5khours

Dude, everyone is in exactly the same boat. Time is money. I and others have repeatedly said, if you're a hub/route captive it makes sense to fly DL. But if DTW was also a UA hub (and assuming you're a VFIF) and you were still flying DL, you would either be stupid or you would be misusing someone else's money.

You're SOL cause you're a DTW hub captive. There's no shame in that, but by making excuses and being a shill for DL, you're just prolonging your agony, delaying changes, and making everyone else worse off.

bubbashow

Yet somehow, despite FT members being outraged at DL not discounting their premium services, it continues to work out for DL pretty well:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...132500450.html

DL2SXM

Its not a stretch. Compare cabins. I'll gladly pay more for the direct aisle access flat bed seat in a 1-2-1 config. Note that some of these airlines that boast flat beds are in a shameful 2-3-2 config with even some having the seats facing towards the back of the plane.

By October, all the 747's will have the conversion done, and by this summer, the 767 conversions will be rapidly going into and coming out of the shop.

With AA and UA upgrades on those ultra cheap fares, what are the bonus miles received by the FF, and what are the fees and mileage that one has to give up for the UG?

Did I read seatguru right? UA's new configuration on the T7 has 8 across in J? No thanks, not even for half of a DL Y,B,M fare would I buy that seat on UA.

UA's International F cabin is a 1 - 2- 1 config, which is on par with DL's J cabin. How much for a UA F seat?

mbarreto

Just got back from GRU on UA 772 J (old) 2x3x2, recliners. No avod, service was well below DL. If you're lucky, you mind end up on the newly configured 2x4x2 lie flats (by comparison, Y has 1 extra seat per row on 3x3x3).

DLroads

On the other hand--

JFK-DTW-HND RT on a M fare for $4930 (!?!?) is, with all do respect, inappropriate for the route, timing and pricing. (Late june and early July RT, with the flights still offering plenty of sLUT fares, and BE near empty).

DL2SXM

Oh absolutely, totally agree. That fare is ridiculous and I would never pay that. DL does have some M fares that are just plane (no pun intended) crazy.

DL2SXM

no avod on a UA 777 in J in the old config?

motytrah

I'll take the second point first. Complimentary Domestic upgrades didn't create the problems in Sky Miles or the F cabin. Giving out MQM like candy with various promotions did. You're from DTW, you remember NW. World Perks didn't have those problems. The reason was EQM was earned with BIS only. DL's FFP is basically a retelling of the children's book "The King, the Mice, and the Cheese".

To your first point, DL is a business. They will react to market demands. The UPG market is closed, hard to compare on a day to day basis. On paper it looks competitive, but in practice we know the program is very opaque. My observation is when the customers hit a tipping point DL reacts. We just haven't reached a tipping point yet.

I would also say no one is asking for low fares for the J-UPG fares. Just competitive Y/B/M. You're not going to get a bunch of riff-raff in J because the M fare was $1900 (vs a sub $1000 Y fare). You will get the riff-raff up front as from all the miles promos. I would contend that the integrity of J cabin is protected far better with upgrades versus awards.

Spiff

AA: No bonus miles, but no fees to use a SWU and therefore no mileage lost. If one uses miles to upgrade rather than a SWU, the co-pay is $300 and the mileage is 25,000. However, the resourceful FlyerTalker obtains SWUs instead.

So, for AA vs DL, one can use a SWU w/no copay on both airline. No M+ bonus miles for AA but also no upgrades below M on DL at all. Winner: AA

If one uses miles, the copay for miles round trip makes AA $600 more expensive than DL for the upgrade. However, the minimum fare is likely to be thousands of dollars less. On AA, co-pay is waived for mileage upgrade from full fare economy (Y and B). Winner: AA

Finally, there's an added bonus on some routes for those who fly AA in paid J: use of SWUs or miles to upgrade into F. Winner: AA

rylan

Yup, its 4700+ for BOS-xxx-ICN or 5200+ for BOS-xxx-NRT as well. Seriously DL? $5239 for the privilege of getting on the waitlist to hopefully use an SWU? I just looked and the I fare is $5997... so the SWU is "worth" a $758 discount over fully paid BE. Is that f'ed up or what?

spsguy

I am surprised that the discussion in this post is primarily centered on which domestic carrier offers the most premium product. Seems to me that DL/UA/AA all have the same mediocre product with different variations. Truly premium is offered by SQ for TPAC and LH for TATL. I have only taken a few J trips on DL/UA/AA but in my limited experience, none even come close to SQ or LH in hard or soft product, in the air or on the ground.

DL2SXM

I'm seeing availability in may for jfk - dtw- hnd in J for $4,000.00 RT.

AA is offering JFK - HND for the same dates on a business special fare of $4180.00

according to seatguru, All AA T7's have now been configured with angled lie-flat Business class seats.

I'll take DL's flatbeds over AA's angled lie-flats any day of the week.

5khours

And specifically what does that report tell you about RPM or PRASM on premium international. Zip! Which is why I'm led to believe that DL has cornered the market on cognitively challenged pax or at least cognitively challenged pax who post meaningless comments on FT.

mtkeller

LH and their angled seats? Surely you jest. BA and LX would have to be rated higher in terms of hard product, and DL sends flat beds to FRA on a couple routes, so I'd put them over LH in terms of hard product on routes that are directly comparable.